by Bazzer501 » Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:37 pm
I did have similar problems with the car many years ago and thought this had been cured once and for all.
Below is a copy of an article I drafted on this for CAR's Le Journal magazine so I hope this helps,Cheers,
Barry
Cutting Out Problems with A610’s when Hot.
I’ve owned an A610 for nearly 2 years now and prior to buying it I had heard about these cars cutting out and refusing to start however this only appeared to happen after a long fast run followed by stop start driving in heavy traffic.
What follows is my own interpretation of what the problem may be. There appears to be a number of causes some of which may or may not be interrelated!
My first experience of this was whilst driving through Luton in heavy traffic. When the car suddenly cut out on a roundabout but then restarted OK, the same thing happened at the next two roundabouts after which the problem seemed to sort itself.
The next time this problem manifested itself was when Carol and I went on a trip to France. Whilst in France we completed some 400+ miles with no problems, not that we were expecting any. On our return to Dieppe to catch the Ferry we called in at the Alpine apres vent in Dieppe and after leaving their car park the car cut out twice when pulling away at junctions. Worrying but thereafter all seemed well until we arrived back in the UK.
After leaving the Ferry Terminal we decided to call into a service station on the motorway for a comfort break and when we went to leave the car would not pull away it just cut out. Finally we got the car started and were on the motorway slip road some 20 metres from the motorway… when it cut out again.
To cut a long story short after an hour or so the RAC arrived kicked the tyres and declared they could do nowt without a diagnostic machine, however by now the engine had cooled down and the car started OK. The RAC then followed us down the motorway and all seemed OK so they left us at the next junction.
All seemed fine then we arrived at the Dartford Crossing, got to the barrier, paid and as we drove through the barrier the car cut out again and would not restart. So there we were on an extremely busy Bank Holiday evening, stuck about 50 metres from the entrance to the tunnel. Needless to say the Dartford officials had to close all barriers, and clear the area so we could be pushed to safety of their yard area…major embarrassment for me and Carol refusing to go any further in the car.
Called the RAC again and we were taken home on a transporter home and on arrival the car started fine and I was able to drive it off the transporter into the garage where I gave it a good kicking!
Following this fiasco I started carrying out some research into the problem and had lengthy discussions with a number of other A610 owners some of which had had the problem whilst others had not. I also spoke to a number of Renault garages about the problem which proved as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike or a chocolate fireguard!!
The problem seemed certainly related to heat build up, normally fast motorway driving followed by stop start driving in towns. My A610 has a louvred glass fibre rear panel on it instead of the rear glass plus a well vented engine cover so this should have helped enormously however it seems to have made little difference! One school of thought was that it only affected higher mileage cars however the same problem was happening to cars that had covered only 40,000 miles.
Fuel Injectors
A number of club members have discussed this problem with French garages and French A610 owners who said that the fuel injectors could be as fault. Unlike most of the GTA’s the A610 has a catalytic converter and lambda sensor so it is essential that the injectors are performing perfectly and possibly there was some over fuelling so the ECU stopped the car to stop any damage to the cat. As my car was due for a service I had these replaced followed later by the Distributor Cap and Rotor Arm both of which are linked to poor starting problems on both GTA’s and A610’s.
Overheating ECU
This is an interesting issue and I am indebted to a number of club members who have contributed to and suggested some alterations that I have implemented.
The ECU is located behind the central cushion between the rear seats where it is bolted to the firewall between the cabin and the engine bay. On the front of the ECU is a further bracket housing a number of relays and fuses. In this location the ECU gets very hot and the thought was that at a certain temperature the ECU simply switched off to prevent any damage.
To test this theory I pulled down the rear seats, removed the soundproofing and took the car for a fast drive. When I got back I put my hand on the firewall beside the ECU and it was so hot that I couldn’t keep it there for any longer than 20 seconds, worrying!
To cure this I purchased a sheet of bubble aluminum type heat insulation material from Demon Tweeks and fitted a large panel across the central part of the firewall behind the ECU location. I then reversed the ECU panel and the panel holding the relays and fuses so that the ECU was not pressing against the firewall and was getting some air round it. A further test run in the car saw that the temperature of the ECU had reduced dramatically.
A further tweak recommended by a club member relates to the central cushion that covers the ECU, relays and fuses. On the rear of this is mounted a number of foam blocks which effectively insulates the cover and keeps the heat in so I removed these. I also cut a ventilation slot in the top of the cover so that air could flow up behind the cover and out of the top. On a car with leather trim it is possible to purchase some short round plastic tubes with bevelled edges from Homebase and the like. Circular holes can be cut and these inserted to give a really neat finish.
Conclusions So Far
Changing the Injectors, insulating the firewall and modifying the location of the ECU appears to have cured the problem with my car. To date I have driven some 14,000 miles in both the UK and France on long motorway journeys followed by lots of start/stop traffic in towns and the car hasn’t cut out once.
I still don’t know whether it was just an injector problem or just an ECU problem, both…or neither but it has worked for me.
TDC Sensor
Last but not least we have a further possible solution to A610 cutting out problems. Peter Whitehouse was getting cutting out problems with his low mileage A610 and after connecting the car to a diagnostic machine it became obvious that the problem with this particular car related to a faulty TDC Sensor. These are readily available however this is located down and behind the turbo. The recommended way of fitting one is to remove the turbo, no easy feat. However these can be replaced by a knowledgeable mechanic, with flexible arms and who knows what he is doing. With Peter’s car this cured the problem and it hasn’t reoccurred since.
Conclusion
As I stated earlier this is my interpretation of what may be causing the problem. I am no mechanic and there may be other ways of curing the problem that I am not aware of, all I know is that what I and others did worked for us.
The A610 was only built from around 1990 to 1995 and in total 804 cars were built so I guess that during this period the problem possibly never arose so Renault were not aware that the problem existed and no modifications were made to cure it.
These are cracking Alpines to drive and if your thinking of buying ones of these cars then please don’t let the problems such as this one put you off. This problem can be solved as I and others have found out.
Barry Jayes.
P.s. I did have a similar problem with my current A610 some two years ago and this was traced to frazzled wiring in the engine bay. The wiring to the injectors and to the fuel pump was replaced and I've had no problems since...touch wood!
Yellow 1993 Alpine Renault A610
