Yet another A610 cutting out thread.

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Re: Yet another A610 cutting out thread.

Postby Miles » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:14 pm

Regarding running without the throttle position sensor wired.
On after market Ecu such as the Adaptronic, the default used was to use the map sensor to control fuelling etc and only using the TPS as a back up.
And as I said if you disconnected the TPS it made no noticeable difference.
However you would need to speak to Martin Faulkes to ascertain how the manufacturers Ecu uses TPS.

If you use them together it should be more responsive but as I say the Adaptronic Ecu was very responsive with it as a secondary or disconnected.
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Re: Yet another A610 cutting out thread.

Postby turbodog » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:34 pm

Have you checked the large connector from the engine as all the sensors go through this and over time the pins corrode
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Re: Yet another A610 cutting out thread.

Postby mettersl » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:00 pm

Hi steve,
I was lucky, on mine the cutting out was mild and cured by an injector overhaul.effectively the car flooded as the injectors didn't cut off and two were dribbling all the time, flooding the car at idle and in hot weather.
The engine bay fans are very important to these cars, they will run for 10 minutes or more when you turn off and on mine the turbo cooling fan ran continuously when not moving, and maybe all the time.
The sensors at the top of the engine are often swapped over due to an error in the parts book, the official manuals explain fully (I have a set for sale if you want to pm me..) the top ones should be the lower temperature and control the fans. The lower, high temperature one puts on a warning light on the dash...is that alight?
I believe the fans themselves are shared with a GTA (I have a sh pair available!) and john c wrote a good article about refurbishing them too.

For my money, get all the systems working properly, especially the bay fans, before worrying about anything more obscure.

Good luck, and enjoy the car once you get it sorted....they are fantastic...! Miss mine some days.
Lee
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Re: Yet another A610 cutting out thread.

Postby BIG_MVS » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:23 am

**Cough**

Postby BIG_MVS

Be careful with the ground wire, in lay mans terms please clarify the following:

a) Ignition on - Fuel pump primes for 2-3 secs then goes off = no good

b) Ignition on - Fuel pump keeps pumping all the time = good, go and test drive and report back


If it works it's not the answer granted but at least you can enjoy the car a bit more while you investigate. My confidence is all gone without the strap and my main fear is going for an overtaking manoeuvre and it conks out. Could be more dangerous than the fuel pump carrying on in the event of an accident...
1994 A610 - Montana Red (For Sale)
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Re: Yet another A610 cutting out thread.

Postby mettersl » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:48 pm

Lots of same period fords have inertia switches to cut the fuel pump if there is an accident, I can't see why you could rig one (maybe with a relay too) to cut the strap on connection too.....
Or I had a car that had a dedicated fuel pump relay, as long as the LV side of the coil was pulsing the pump stayed on. Might be more difficult with these cars.
If either of these could be engineered you'd get the best of both worlds.
Sadly Steves car doesnt have this problem.....the strap doesn't work!
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Re: Yet another A610 cutting out thread.

Postby BIG_MVS » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:13 pm

mettersl wrote:Sadly Steves car doesnt have this problem.....the strap doesn't work!


Does it though? I am still waiting to see and for Steve to confirm the above on ignition. You really do need a good earth to make it work trust me I know.
1994 A610 - Montana Red (For Sale)
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Re: Yet another A610 cutting out thread.

Postby SteveC » Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:53 pm

BIG_MVS wrote:
mettersl wrote:Sadly Steves car doesnt have this problem.....the strap doesn't work!


Does it though? I am still waiting to see and for Steve to confirm the above on ignition. You really do need a good earth to make it work trust me I know.


Hi, sorry ive been quiet. Im not going to have a chance to tinker till the weekend as I'm too busy with work this week. Ill certainly let you know how I get on after the weekend.

Ive got a new fan for the engine bay which will go in, and already got some manuals lined up. I've paid well over the odds for them im sure but just need to get some knowledge together on this car.

The few times its been working OK its been awesome. Im really looking forward to getting it somewhere close to reliable!
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Re: Yet another A610 cutting out thread.

Postby Hedley » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:13 pm

Did you manage to get a brand new fan? I'm definitely in the market for one of those. Have you replaced the extractor fan on the other side too? I think that's just as important. It'll be interesting if yours improves with just one fan replaced. If so it'll probably point to the two fans being the route cause and give me hope that I'm on the right lines replacing mine. The earth wire fault has been red herring for my car and I now think that hearing the similarity with your fault it's a cooling issue after all.
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Re: Yet another A610 cutting out thread.

Postby SteveC » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:39 pm

Hedley wrote:Did you manage to get a brand new fan? I'm definitely in the market for one of those. Have you replaced the extractor fan on the other side too? I think that's just as important. It'll be interesting if yours improves with just one fan replaced. If so it'll probably point to the two fans being the route cause and give me hope that I'm on the right lines replacing mine. The earth wire fault has been red herring for my car and I now think that hearing the similarity with your fault it's a cooling issue after all.


I've got a second hand fan, not new. But i'm told its a good one. The one I have sounds like its eating itself alive when its running, there is no way I could happily let it run and walk away from the car. still blows good and strong though.

Cant fault my extractor fan, so that can stay put.

The replacement switch should arrive in the post any day this week ready to fit at the weekend. Also got new coil (as its cheap), plugs (as they are service items anyway) and a TDC sensor coming, along with a pair or rear tyres because Steve certainly looks to have enjoyed himself in this car comparing the tyre wear front to rear.. I'll do the same im sure.. :up

Will also give all the wiring a good once over, visual inspection everywhere, check all chassis grounding points are good and get inside and clean the contacts in all the connectors. Hopefully my speedo will spring to life once ive done this. I understand there is a particularly vulnerable connector for speedo problems, can anyone remind me which one is that please?

Pick up my workshop manuals on Thursday morning so hopefully by the weekend ill have a much better understanding of this beast!

I dont believe that the fans alone not working is the root cause, perhaps the fans not working for a while meaning that the engine bay has seen excessive temperatures for a while which has damaged some sensor or wiring somewhere. I'm thinking that the 610 ECU is somewhat unique that its will merrily cut out when its not happy with something where any other ECU would simply pop a MIL light on and carry on as best it can. Its possible in my eye that the 'cutting out' problem is so hard for us all to solve because the genuine root cause is different on each car. We have read about wiring damage, duff sensors, poor grounding all being billed as the cause. I suspect that its been different for everyone. For me, its definitely heat related, so will certainly be made worse by the lack of cooling so this is definitely the first thing on the list to attend to.

I'll be very disapointed if I cant get to the bottom of this. These cars would certainly not have been like this in 1994.. And my car would certainly not have got to 124000miles if it had always been like this. Nobody would have had the patience! :wtf
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Re: Yet another A610 cutting out thread.

Postby SteveC » Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:46 pm

Can anyone recommend where to find a TDC sensor and a part number to use please? Local Renault dealer is really struggling with this!

Thanks for any pointers anyone can give. :up
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Re: Yet another A610 cutting out thread.

Postby Dave Williams » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:01 pm

Steve..check the "renault parts look up" thread in members area..you should be able to find any part through there...
But someone else can probably quote the part no directly...
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Re: Yet another A610 cutting out thread.

Postby SteveC » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:21 pm

Dave Williams wrote:Steve..check the "renault parts look up" thread in members area..you should be able to find any part through there...
But someone else can probably quote the part no directly...


Hi Dave, unfortunately the part that I think is the one in the diagram lists as .. "No part numbers could be found that match your search.". I guess this is the problem Renault themselves are having.

I just wondered if anyone knew a VDO, or Intermotor or whoever else replacement part number that ill be able to get a motorfactor to understand.
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Re: Yet another A610 cutting out thread.

Postby mettersl » Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:29 pm

On my car (A610) the metal can that protects the TDC sensor had come apart and needed to be welded back together, you have to be flexible to get it them though...It looked very cooked so it gets hot back there.
Don't feel bad about overpaying for manuals, I did too..
As I mentioned earlier on, my cutting out was more like flooding and was cured by an injector clean.
My rear tyre wear was fixed by 4 wheel alignment. I have shims (front camber ones and rear tow in ones too) if you need some...

They are worth it...
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Re: Yet another A610 cutting out thread.

Postby JohnC » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:01 pm

SteveC wrote:Can anyone recommend where to find a TDC sensor and a part number to use please?

I think you will find the TDC sensor is on this page.
See if you can recognise any sensor that looks like the one you want using the code for the Z7X engine, and cross check for the part number.
Hope this helps you.

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Re: Yet another A610 cutting out thread.

Postby Miles » Wed Jul 16, 2014 10:08 pm

John, item 8 is the tdc or as I say crank sensor.
I will speak to Jon. Kenny I think he changed his TDC I'm sure it came from camberly auto factors.
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