A610 wing mirrors

[mettersl]

Hi Everyone,
My A610 is quite late august 1994 so this may not be true for all A610, but as we are having a discussion about wiring in the other thread , I thought I'd post up today's discoveries in the hope that someone can shed some light on it. This isnt as important as why they stop, but its a curiosity.
Whilst attempting to work out why my drivers side electric mirror movement wasn't working in all directions, I have discovered that the wiring diagrams in the 1991 and 1992 book are wrong in this area. This is a surprise as the wiring diagrams are generally correct, if you get the right one, unlike my old Alfas.
When you start to move the mirrors, the RHS mirror (or maybe inside the door) clicks like a relay, this happens even when moving the left mirror. I get the click all the time, but the right mirror doesn't always move in all directions (but it does some of the time...). All the wiring looks OEM and unmodified.
When I looked at the wiring and its associated wiring diagram, the switch is a 6 pin device but the wiring diagram shows 7. The connectors are also different, a pair of round like the ones the wing mirror itself, not the rectangular multi block shown in the book. There is also one wire missing all the way back, and a quick look further up the loom confirms that this hasn't been cut off, its not there at all.

So I seem to have extra relays in the door or mirror (and the wiring there looks as factory), one less wire and a different switch. It all seems to work, but not as perfectly as I would like. I tried working out the diagram from scratch by checking what gets powered up when with a multimeter, but there doesn't seem to be any simple logic, but I can definitely hear a phantom relay...
I have looked through the errata/RHD supplement and this has nothing on this topic, neither do the technical notes.

Can anyone add to or explain this?

[BIG_MVS]

So let me get this right, your wing mirrors are working fine but not quite right? This is good for an A610!!! Anything that works is good, leave it alone otherwise it won't work at all!!

In all seriousness I think Lee you should start a thread on your A610 (in the projects section) with lots of pics Also put in there your ABS findings as that is next amongst other things on my hit list to crack.

Deleted.

[mettersl]

Aha John,
I had already checked the 1991 and 1992 wiring diagrams for the A610 before posting, the car is definely NOT like the a610 wiring diagrams, (even the rhd supplements, which don't mention the wing mirrors at all.)
Are there relays in the GTA mirrors?
If so then this sounds like a good hint. The a 610 as lhd has completely different mirrors, from a Renault 19. The rhd has GTA carry overs.
It sounds like the rhd a610 has a GTA system in other ways too.
On mine they work sometimes and if you move the switch slowly the missing axes start working. Looks like I may need to find GTA wiring diagram to understand what is going on with the rhd a610.
I have a Worksop manual but not any wiring diagrams, are they in the memebers section?

Thanks Lee

[stephendell]

Unlike the GTA's, there are no relays in the wing mirrors

GTA & A610 RHD are identical mirrors and mechanisms.

AFAIK the way the mirror mechanism works is that the none-selected mirror should still click even if the motor is not powered. This is just the electro magnetic operating to change the motor direction.

I had a Sierra with the same mirror mechanisms and that behaved in the same way.

[mettersl]

Ok I am now convinced, it's not just the wing mirrors that are from a GTA, it's the wiring system too (and it all may be borrowed from a ford too).
That explains it all.
As the A610 wiring diagram for this is wrong, does anyone have a GTA wiring diagram that they could scan that page and send me?
My 610 manuals only show the lhd version
Thanks
Lee

GTA & A610 RHD are identical mirrors and mechanisms.

Thanks Stephen for that intervention.... you are right. All 4 of my 610 manuals show, what is now the LHD version only. I should have checked the parts list before posting.. Sorry. ... my end of term report now reads... "could do better". ... I will delete the above as not relevant.

This is just the electro magnetic operating to change the motor direction.

There are two motors in each mirror. What the relay does is change the reversable voltage from the switch, to the vertical adjustment motor, the same reversable voltage is always applied to the horizontal motor unless the vertical movement is selected and the relay cuts in.

Now..... with that out of the way..... back to buisness.
Lee.... Another member went through this with me a while back, so fortunately, I still have the cct diag and explanation in photobucket which I attach below.
In the previous case, if I remember rightly, his intermittent operation was due to the round 4 pin connector requiring attention... clean, tighten up female pins etc, and again from memory, thats all it was. Embarrassingly though, I can't remember which member it was, so to him, I apologise.
I hope everything is right this time..... but you never know.
Anyway... here are the pics...

[mettersl]

That's it, thanks John!
When I get back I will go hunting the rogue connector, the switch is even the GTA one, not as shown in the 610 handbook.
What I found it that it works some of the time on the RHS and all of the time on the lhs mirror.
Glad the mechanisms OK, just need to find the intermittent connector.
Cheers
Lee

OK, just need to find the intermittent connector.

Behind the little triangular cover inside the window behind the mirror fitting its self.