Guidance with a possible project

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Guidance with a possible project

Postby Skyedriver » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:06 pm

Following on from a rather briefer question, I would like to throw this open to the collective on here, hoping for a bit (lot) of advice regarding a possible GTA purchase. Apologies now for the length of this post.

I have admired these cars for many years and this particular one belongs to a life long friend.
I am a reasonably competent DIYer, age 59 so am able/ prepared to tackle most jobs but have limited garage space.
But enough about me…

The car itself

A G plate turbo, hasn’t been on the road since 2002, it suffered some head damage (crack) but that has been professionally repaired. Stored in a dry unheated garage. There is 90k miles on the clock.
It starts, runs sweetly, clutch works.

I gave the car a good look over last night and taking the owners list and adding my own notes:-

The chassis has a very thick coat of flaky rust but appears basically sound in the areas that get mentioned on this forum – rear turrents and A pillars. No paint left on chassis. Can I stop it getting any worse or will it ultimately require major surgery.

Most suspension components are similarly rusty but probably serviceable. Suggest heat required to free off most nuts/bolts. Threads lost under the rust.

Most suspension rubbers in poor condition. Will require replacing.

Brakes binding - likely to be seized. What is the cost of replacements and new flexis. (Solid brake pipes seem coated in something protective)?

One headlight glass cracked, one de-bonding from nosecone, nosecone distorted around headlight.
I believe these are rare and megabucks, is there a cheaper option, polycarb or similar?

One dipped beam light has a corroded reflector, are these specific to the GTA or semi universal?

Screen scratched/scored by wipers on passenger side (If not an MoT failure it must be close, are replacements available and what is the cost?

Drivers side door mirror shell broken. GTA Specific?

Drivers side window inoperative, can be pushed up/down. It’s a pull it apart and see I guess.

Both doors about 40mm from the top edge, and leading edge of roof have a strange line under the paint, like a run but I don’t think it’s ever been painted. (Minor flaking of laquer not enough to worry about).

Steering wheel requires re-trim – believe someone on here has had one done recently?

Drivers side beige leather seat requires re trim. Both bolsters worn and split.

Olive green carpets require clean (minimum) or replaced (preferred as worn). Are sets available?

4 new tyres required (standard turbo wheels). Would consider dropping a tyre size to avoid replacing wheels due to cost.

A few cam bolts and a wheel nut required – guess someone on here has a box full….

Elecric door opening inoperative, mechanical operation works but sticks due to lack of use. As long as MoT man isn’t worried I wouldn’t be.

Heater or heater pipes leak. Didn’t strip the car to find problem, is heater accessed from inside car or luggage area?

Cooling fans not checked

Needs a service obviously

I won’t say at this moment what he wants for it as it’s still open to discussion and as hes a good mate. I neither want to rip him or me off.

It seemed like a good project car until I looked at it last night then started to add up the possible costs of this lot. Suddenly the car seemed not such as good an idea, when what would seem reasonable examples come up for sale at what seems very little, when you consider it’s an interesting, 4 seater performance car.

Hope this hasn’t gone on too long, if anyone can offer any specific advice about any of the above I would appreciate your guidance.

Thanks
Tony H
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Postby clee » Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:47 pm

A G plate turbo, hasn’t been on the road since 2002, it suffered some head damage (crack) but that has been professionally repaired. Stored in a dry unheated garage. There is 90k miles on the clock.
It starts, runs sweetly, clutch works.
Needs driving some miles in anger before assuming all is good

I gave the car a good look over last night and taking the owners list and adding my own notes:-

The chassis has a very thick coat of flaky rust but appears basically sound in the areas that get mentioned on this forum – rear turrents and A pillars. No paint left on chassis. Can I stop it getting any worse or will it ultimately require major surgery.
Most suspension components are similarly rusty but probably serviceable. Suggest heat required to free off most nuts/bolts. Threads lost under the rust.
It won't get better ,you need to hit the ares with a pin hammer or the like ,siezed wishbone bushes ,check jacking point and outriggers .Anything that can rust will .Engine out to shotblast and repair subframe + turrets

Most suspension rubbers in poor condition. Will require replacing.

Brakes binding - likely to be seized. What is the cost of replacements and new flexis. (Solid brake pipes seem coated in something protective)?
[b]About 150 for rears refurb similar for new front + pads 50 + lines 50
One headlight glass cracked, one de-bonding from nosecone, nosecone distorted around headlight.
I believe these are rare and megabucks, is there a cheaper option, polycarb or similar?
http://www.renaultalpinetuningservices. ... vers+lined

One dipped beam light has a corroded reflector, are these specific to the GTA or semi universal?
GTA Secific .Club has stock for members about 120


Screen scratched/scored by wipers on passenger side (If not an MoT failure it must be close, are replacements available and what is the cost?
300 autoglass or club may have stock

Drivers side door mirror shell broken. GTA Specific?
Club stocks

Drivers side window inoperative, can be pushed up/down. It’s a pull it apart and see I guess.Motor ,mech or switch

Both doors about 40mm from the top edge, and leading edge of roof have a strange line under the paint, like a run but I don’t think it’s ever been painted. (Minor flaking of laquer not enough to worry about).

Steering wheel requires re-trim – believe someone on here has had one done recently?

Drivers side beige leather seat requires re trim. Both bolsters worn and split.

Olive green carpets require clean (minimum) or replaced (preferred as worn). Are sets available?secondhand units available

4 new tyres required (standard turbo wheels). Would consider dropping a tyre size to avoid replacing wheels due to cost.

A few cam bolts and a wheel nut required – guess someone on here has a box full….Yep

Elecric door opening inoperative, mechanical operation works but sticks due to lack of use. As long as MoT man isn’t worried I wouldn’t be.Not MOT fail as long as floor mount emergency works

Heater or heater pipes leak. Didn’t strip the car to find problem, is heater accessed from inside car or luggage area?Dash and center console out unless you are Irish and then the little people work some magic

Cooling fans not checked

Needs a service obviously
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Postby blueg33 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 1:03 pm

I would look very closely at the coolant pipes that run under the car from front to back. The car I saw that had been standing for a while leaked like mad from these and its engine out to fix and £300 in parts.

Check that the doors are solid on the hinges and front cross member isnt too rusty.

I did some maths on one I looked at which sounds similar condition to the one you mention (except externally it was excellent, glass, paint etc) and £2k was easy to spend and that was coming with MOT
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Maybe buy a better one

Postby Tony Smith » Tue Jun 26, 2012 6:55 pm

A very real issue is appearing now with GTAs. Parts are getting so expensive and difficult to source that a restoration project is almost becoming an act of financial lunacy to restore one when the values of good cars is still so reasonable. Just with the known bits you have mentioned theres about 2 grands worth of bits and thats if the engine is ok and it doesn't need painting. If they're not your looking at 5-6k plus the cost of the car. I've just given an atmo a good going over and have done about 2k in parts not including any engine or bodywork, and that had only been standing 2 years! You always find more than you bargained for! In my case that has been radiator, water pipes and rear calipers on top of discs and pads all round, new coilover suspension, headlamp glasses and exhaust that I did know about!
Alpines - GTA 3.0 Turbo, GTA 3.0 Inj (Project DD), GTA 6.2 V8 (500 bhp) , R32 Skyline GTR, BMW Alpina B10 635 Highline, Alpina B10 E39 5 Series, Jaguar 4.2 XKR, Laguna 205GT, BMW 120d.
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Postby clee » Tue Jun 26, 2012 7:11 pm

No great suprise they are giving way ...everything has a shelf life and 20+ years is some going considering
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Postby Skyedriver » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:21 pm

Thanks everyone so far
It seems as if my second opinion, first was before I actually gave it a going over last night, is correct in that it'll cost as much or more than a good one to sort, but will take a lot of time, rust in the eyes, scraped knuckes etc in the process.
It's a shame to see these cars get to a state where they are worth more in bits. (Two rear lights for £700 IIRC the thread last week).
I originally thought it was a recommission job but looking/thinking about the chassis, and the bits I didn't know about, like seat, windscreen, headlamp glasses, (I knew about the light unit reflector) I guess its a rebuild job.
As to everything costing more than thought I rebuilt a 71 mini that had been in wifes family for 20+ years. "It'll not take much to put it back on the road" I said. £5k later.........
They always reckon it's cheaper to buy a fully restored car (any car) than restore one yourself, although personally I like to know whats gone into the resto.
Does the rear "subframe" come out easily with engine etc or is that likely to be a PITA as well.
Oh oh, I'm talking myself into some work here....

Tony H
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Postby darrenbiggs » Tue Jun 26, 2012 8:45 pm

Yes rear subframe drops out with the engine, 'box and suspension attached and isn't actually that difficult.

Main thing is how committed you are. GTAs seem to be falling into two camps at the moment - the ones doomed to rot away and be broken, and the ones where someone has the will and wallet to fix them up. That either means taking it on yourself or paying someone else to take their share of the pain.

Reality is though that GTAs are well past being a logical choice!

Some men pay for women to abuse and torture them physically and financially. We just opted for Alpines instead :roll:
I'm just here for the gasoline.
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Postby simonsays74 » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:10 pm

Feckin' magic Irish men and their magic tricks!

That sounds like a £500 GTA there for sure.
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Postby BIG_MVS » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:20 pm

That doesn't sound too terminal. As said above it depends if you are doing it for the love and to keep it or to sell on for a butty?

I reckon you will get pleasure out of doing most of the work yourself and take pride when it's on the road. Of course this forum will help you out with tips and parts.

The paint sounds a bit strange though, what colour is it out of interest?
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Postby Skyedriver » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:13 pm

Hi
It was to get back on the road and use, for a while at least, dependent upon running costs and cirvumstances. Fancied one since the 1990's
It's blue.
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Postby Skyedriver » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:15 pm

simonsays74 wrote:Feckin' magic Irish men and their magic tricks!

That sounds like a £500 GTA there for sure.


You've lost me there Paddy

By £500 I guess you mean that's what it's worth?

Or is this a wind up?

Sorry missed your sense of humour.
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Postby BIG_MVS » Tue Jun 26, 2012 11:37 pm

Don't worry about the irish fella he's sound and only pulling your plonker (DO NOT EVER GO ON THE PISTE WITH HIM IN BELFAST THOUGH :roll: )

Get it bought and join in with the fun which is Alpine fettling (hope you have a daily car as well :shock: ).

Is it light or dark blue btw? Dark Blue's are the nuts and rare as hens teeth.
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Postby Skyedriver » Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:41 am

Its a typical "french" blue metallic
I am beginning to (regrettably) talk myself out of this one.
It is for sale (ish) by a mate who needs the space but doesn't want to sell it but doesn't use it. So it'll sit there forever as a shelf in his garage if I don't buy it.
It would obviously be better for him to renovate it as then there isn't a purchase price involved. But he has enough on his plate already.
It's the chassis/suspension that worries me most, I guess, as I don't have the space for a full strip down. I can barely get the car into the available space without the need for another car size space for the rear sub frame etc etc

TBH I am rapidly running out of interest in motoring....I have had some great cars over the years but the ones I now have interest in are either rusting rapidly or cost too much to buy. There is very, very little modern stuff I find remotely interesting. TVR chassis are a disaster, Lotus getting fragile, old BMW (3.0CSi & E30 M3) and Ford now stratosphere prices and I'm getting to inflexible to fit into Caterhams etc.

The Alpine still appeals greatly but as Clee says - 20 years on and they're at the end of their life.....

You don't suppose the irishman Simonsays74 means he'll put it right for £500 do you.?????

Ramble over

Thanks for your help, the car isn't going anywhere quickly so I'll keep pondering it for a while longer

Tony H
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Postby blueg33 » Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:18 am

I am not sure I would let the age put you off. These are classic cars of increasing rareity. With the curent prices it doesnt much matter if you have to wait for a part or save up to get one made, just leave it in the garage until its fixed :)

They are at the end of their planned life but many have been looked after and many are sound or can be made so.

Ponder too long and the opportunity goes!

I agree with you n modern cars although I rather like the Honda S2000 and the current Z4m. My TVR was fine chassis wise (tuscan).

If yoy have the cash other interesting cars like Ginetta G40 make a change from modern anodyne motoring :)
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Postby Skyedriver » Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:36 am

Blue G33- 'fraid I don't have the money anymore for big purchases, family & property seen to that. (see PHead profile of vehicles owned)
Couldn't leave it lying and doing bits here and there, I am the sort who gets INTO a project, even if the mini one took longer than expected.
And if it costs more than a good one to put back on the road its not financial sense.
TVR I had a Chimaera, and I doubt its onthe road anymore as I used every day for 3 years and that exposed chassis wil have gone west. Saw a W plate Griff recently with serious rot inthe main members.

BigMVS - liike the blue don't like dark blue.....

DarrenBiggs - interesting quote " GTA well past a logical choice"

Clee - "20 year lifespan" - guess you are right

If only these manufacturers had galvanised the chassis at the time....

A Spider chassis in my old Elan and the turret wouldn't have collapsed
TVR owners wouldn't be replacing out riggers on mass
And I might be the proud owner of a GTA by now....

I would be able to break it for bits and make a profit but I couldn't do that to a mates car.
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