Adaptronic

Question for those running adaptronic.
While driving around this weekend i decided to monitor the AFR guage. My question is why when i come of throttle does my AFR not lean out ie go above lamba 14.4? yet if i keep a touch of throttle in it then goes up to around 18 to 19?
Surely when on over run when not on throttle it should be using no gas?
Has anyone else noticed this, it appears to resort to idle mode. Or is it some setting i need to alter.

Dave - is it cutting out or giving you any other kind of problem?

No? Then I suggest you leave it well alone, it was setup by someone whom I would consider the most experienced with that ecu and efi setup in general, so trust him!

The PRV is a bit of a dirty engine; if you were to lean it right out it would not run particularly well whatever ecu is feeding it. The Renix only cuts fuel on the over-run and kicks back in before idle is reached. I don't know if the Adapt has that facility (I'm sure it could be programmed if really essential), you would need to ask Lee or Scoff, but considering the Adapt was essentially a performance upgrade for all the owners cars on here that it has been fitted, than a mission to save fuel, I think 14.4 is pretty good! Mostly on a Renix 1 you will be 13 to high 13s.... Are you really that worried about running on vapour?

Smile and be happy with your Adapt, go drive and enjoy, navel gazing will have you up the rear end of someone else’s car if your not careful: wink:

No its running fine.
Normaly at about 13 down to 10 on boost.
But just thought it would go to vapour as you say on over run or down hill with no throttle, revs are above idle so don't see why not.
Will just have to get used to keeping my foot on the gas slightly.
Fuel is pretty good.
Just intrigued thats all.

Dave

I guess you could programme one of the Adap outputs to control the injection relay and just cut it on falling revs and 0% throttle, but there is probably a better way if you are really driven.

10:1 on boost sounds a tad rich, have you changed anything? Is that steady state boost or are you accelerating at the time, so getting some accel pump at the same time? What boost are you now running Dave?

I have turned down the wick to standard at the moment about 10psi was at 14.5psi during my macon run.
Need to refit my electronic boost adjuster.
Turned it down as currently bought some slippers and have taken up caravaning with my boys.
Need to post some pictures.
Oh yeah your question it drops to ten when my foot is to the floor accelerating.
Definetly a little rich always has been. Scoffed dialed in a safety factor as I was supposed to be fitting a larger turbo, still on my todo list.

Yes i would say Scoff knows his stuff.
However when he set my car up it was one of the first GTA to undergo his treatment.
And has needed a bit of tweaking once warmed up, probably the downside to having it tuned up north during winter hahah.

So would probably benifit another retune.
But have to say it is running very well.

Shame he does not live a little closer.

Dave, well as CLee has often mentioned, there are several owners now with this ecu, and could all benefit with some fine tweaking from Scoff. So why not organise between you to pay his costs and travel for the day, and get date set for the next Bruntingthorpe bash - sensible? But you need to be talking to him now, not a couple of days before.

Further, for those aspiring owners, it may be worth talking to CLee aka RATS and see if he'll put together a kit special before the dread 20% VAT, and do it as a pre-Chrimbo special - it's getting to that time of year!

Organise in numbers and execute... no wimping-out half way through ..

What you have to remember is that Renault spent years testing the Renix in all conditions so to expect the Adapt to be that complete is a bit daft .
I've had about 5 tuning sessions with Chris now and something always needs a tweak but then I'm always taking to the next stage of tune .
At the moment I have really good start from cold or hot but it didn't want to know at all when we put the 440cc in .
It's not just a case of subtracting a percentage etc and all the ones we've done need different setups .I've got all the maps from 5 cars and they are all different by some degree .

As far as upgrades go we now have about 4 options with various states of tune and ECU .Renix or Adaptronic they are all done/proven just waiting to be installed in some more
Trouble is I think the market here is non-existant with not that many on the road and even less owners willing or wanting to chase performance .OE seems to be the way .....

Lee,
All fuel injected cars do not use any gas when your foot comes of the throttle while decelerating. I'm sure the adaptronic being a later system and a supposed upgrade would accomodate what is considered the norm.
Its probably just a tick box i have left undone.

Dave

Regarding your remark about all cars require different set up.
That two requires some debate, you can put a renix ecu on anycar and it runs fine the same should go to a mapped adaptronic.
What is needed is a standardisation of some variables. I would suggest a good start being we all set the same fuel pressure as this forsure will be causing the greatest difference with regard to fueling. (obviously you would need seperate maps depending on injector size, but me and simon have the same 440 injectors)
And if you ever mapped one on a standard car with standard regulator and injectors it should be swapable.
one issue I would say needs addressing with regard to the adaptronic is that we are not using the knock sensors which the renix relies on.
This would improve the tuning further and more then could be extracted from each set up, this is a facility the adaptronic does has, the adaptonic forum recommends we use it and run in closed loop so why are we all in open?
Which takes out this safety device!

Dave with the greatest respect that sounds good in theory, but you will find this is not bourne out in practical reality. Firstly, let’s start with your motivation to move away from the Renix, as you say it’s plug and play in it’s OE state, but again tuned this can be a very different matter, and I speak from the experience of doing it. So firstly we agree you are looking to tweak an engine setup taking it away from the setup that Renault and Berex spent a large amount of $ sorting. It also has a large safety margin in terms of limit to detonation etc – to account bad fuel, poor maintenance, and a host of other issues. Further it has not been setup to achieve best power. I don’t imagine for one minute you spent your $ on the Adapt to only achieve the same power levels as the standard Renix offers, that would be pointless. So you wanted more power and to remove the safety margins, and take that responsibility yourself. If you are prepared to accept more compromise in terms of performance i.e. less, then plug and play as you say becomes increasingly possible.

The Renix does not rely on the knock sensor, and in fact is only sensitive within narrow rpm bands, tuned to the original engine parameters, that unless altered to match modified engine specs becomes inappropriate – depends where your engine makes the highest BMEP.

Suitably tuned, and using the same octane index fuel, you won’t need the knock sensors. If you are prone to putting in cheap fuel having setup up on premium then knock sensors will be the least of your worries. Running on the limit of knock is not the best way to achieve peak torque at any engine set point, and the small but not time sustained performance increase will increase your EGT and cause accelerated degradation of your engine if not failure. I actually had this discussion with the head of Ford UK engineering many years ago admittedly, and he was firmly against it. Engine dyno test results clearly show the knock limit is not a sustained place to be, nor necessarily give best torque. The only scientific way to know this is to have the engine on a dyno test stand and measure all the parameters, and we individually simply do not have that luxury, time or money in most cases.

When you employ a professional tuners resource, he will tune the engine to a compromise he feels is best fit, cognisant of the age, type, use, owner competence etc, and this will always be a judgement. I have no doubt Scoff has taken yours to the fine limit.

What more are you really looking to achieve, I guess that’s really the question?

Dave: which gauge are you watching? The live output on the Adaptronic's "gauges" window, or the output from your LM-1 ?

You should have the Adapt set up to switch off injectors on overrun (eg with throttle less than 2% and revs higher than 1500). This means what the lambda sensor reads on overrun will be nonsense and/or off the end of the scale (lots of oxygen)

The adaptronic's readout defaults to 10.0 IIRC under these conditions, the same as if you unplug it - it could well be that the LM-1 simply defaults to is last sensible reading and stays there till you start burning fuel again.

Ah someone with knowledge.
Cheers martin.
I will have a look.
And i am reading from the LM1 meter not the adaptronic.
Dave

Mr Faulks,
The reason i mentioned the knock sensor is not to run constantly detonating but to be able to run near to, once knock is sensed the adaptronic will retard ignition.
The guys from adaptonic recommend using knock and running in closed loop. We are not currently.
Why is the question.

Dave then I simply suggest we put it to practical test and get some power and torque measurements with BSFC as well. There will be some real data with this particular engine to draw conclusion. This would make the basis of a good Rolling Road day. I paid for the last day, any takers this time?