Engine Rebuild

I'm planning on taking my 140,000 mile turbo engine out to do the head gaskets, all the other gaskets and seals and tidy up the subframe. I'm pulling together a list of other parts that I should also change. I have included an oil pump, clutch kit and slave cylinder but I'm not sure about the timing gear. I plan to change the chains and tensioners but should I also change the sprockets or are they normally OK? Any other bits to consider while the engine is out?

Also - I don't have the necessary hydraulic ramp and stands needed to drop the entire rear out of the car so I'm planning to lift the engine out using an engine crane. Will it then be possible to detach the rear subframe and lift the car body off without requiring a ramp or will there still not be enough clearance? I'd probably take the front skirt off to make a bit of room to tip the car up.

I was thinking about the practicalities of droping the engine out and lifting the body off, and thought about putting the front wheels up on ramps first to stop the nose grounding out, but then driving the car up onto a ramp is just as difficult. OR jacking up the front and replacing the front wheels with a jig to raise it up.

I've heard that some drop the engine and box onto a pallet and remove it on a pallet truck, or one of these sunblest trolleys on 4 castors.

Good luck, look forward to seeing some pictures.

When i did mine, i had 3 trolly jacks under the rear chasis. I disconected everything and then lifted the remainder of the car over the engine and wheeled the whole lot on the trolly jacks back from under the car. It wasn't too bad actually, but not something to be attemted on your own!
Its one of those jobs that is a nightmare the first time you tackle it, but once you know what your doing - its pretty simple.

i have had the unenviable job of removing 3 engines and one subframe.

by far and away the easiest method is to drop everything down in one go.... sub-frame, gear box, engine and loom. just need the car high enough for clearence.

next best is the engine only out by lifting it up with the rear glass removed, and if it is a turbo car the leave the wiring loom connected to the engine and remove it at the bulkhead behind the rear seats.

this then leaves the subframe, 8 nuts and bolts and the 4 nuts holding the shocks up, then brake pipes and let 'er drop!

gearbox comes out/in with the subframe stupid frence idiots!!!! what were they thinking when they came up with this blinder off an idea!!!!!
with porsche 911's (similar layout) you can take the engine OR gearbox out in about 1hr, making clutch replacement very easy.

[Alpineandy]

Any other bits to consider while the engine is out?

I think there are a few pipes that would be sensible to change with it all out.





A) if memory serves me.
B) and not being a gta owner...

I seem to recall reading somewhere that to drop the engine and subframe the car had to be raised 1.5 metres from the ground - not easy on the drive. I'd be happy to be corrected!

[stephendell]

Andy. You must mean the transfer tubes. Almost impossible to change without the engine out. Worth doing if they are corroded in inaccessible places.

The workshop manual says that the car needs to be raised by 85cm. That would seem to agree with my measurement of the height of the turbo heatshield from the ground. I figure that if I remove the turbo and the inlet bits then I can drop that by about 10cm. Taking the back wheels off and dropping the back suspension onto a low trolley should gain another 5-10cm so I'm looking at getting the bottom edge of the back skirt about 70cm off the ground.

When level, the back skirt is almost 30cm off the ground so that leaves 40 cm to be found. From the pictures and dimensions on this site, I figured out that, using the centre of the front wheel as a pivot point, the front skirt is about 90cm forward and the back is about 330cm back. So, treating the car as a big see-saw, for every cm the front goes down, the back should go up 3.5cm. There looks to be about 19cm clearance from the front skirt to the ground so I should be able to raise the back of the car by about 66cm without scraping the front skirt off the ground. Which seems to say, in a rather long winded way, that it should be possible to tip the beast up and roll its guts out.

[pgoldsmith]

I have no intention of removing my engine, however, out of sheer curiosity I thought you had to in some way support the subframe whilst removing the engine. Is this true? If it is then how do you do this and why do you need to?

lifting the car at the rear only is stupid.....

1. it is very difficult to locate the axle stands as the jacking points are no longer flat surfaces. (i.e. unstable car when supported)

2. it will be very hard to work around unless you are 8ft +!!

3. removal of the complete assembly will be easy as gravity is always there to give you a helping hand, but when it comes to refitting then gravity will work against you as you have to line up the subframe with whatever angle you have the car jacked up at. you want to make it easy for yourself, not harder.

I'm confused. Is what I'm proposing not what Ben described in his post? i.e. disconnect everything that links the body to the engine/subframe and then raise the body up and wheel the engine/gearbox/subframe out from under the back? Your points are good - I've jotted down some answers

1. I was planning to make up a bar, as described in the workshop manual, to go under the back floorpan and facilitate lifting and support by a trolley jack/axle stand at each side - I will need to make sure of good location of the bar and the jacks as the angle increases.I reckon it will be somewhere between 10 and 15 degrees of angle needed.

2. I wouldn't envisage doing any work on the top side of the engine bay once everything is disconnected, prior to lifting the body off.

3. The subframe will always be in its normal position, parallel with the ground and eventually on a low trolley of some sort. I'll probably leave the back wheels on and only remove them if I need the extra clearance. I can't see that lining the subframe up with the body as I lower it back down should be too much of an issue. The body will be on trolley jacks at that point and so should be able to move a little as well.

As a matter of interest - how did you lift the entire car up to a height of 85cm? or did you lift the engine out first and then do the subframe/gearbox afterwards?

oh dear, you need some help before you start this.

with the car on the ground how do you intend to remove 8 nuts and bolts that hold the subframe to the body?

also if you do get the complete unit out then how, if the unit is on the ground, are you going to get the gear linkage to line up as you lower the car when you are refitting?

tell you what, pm me you tel.no. and i will try and talk you out of disabling an all time great car. honestly though i will pass on my advice.

commom sense tells me that danger is not too far away.

A ton of car on trolley jacks, I'll assume that the wheels on them are small, the garage floor is not mirror like and the wheels will stick a bit as they roll and then that great car will topple over at which time I hope all are clear and no one gets crushed. I know someone who came out to find her uncle crushed dead under a mini, he had only used a jack and no stands. Just lie on the floor, get an adult (only 80 - 100 kgs) to stand on your chest, you can't breathe for long or shout much, for help.

All jobs are easy with the right tolls and health and saftey is all about over engineering. Something like 75% of A&E cases are DIY "accidents", don't go there.

mitchella, sounds like simonsays has all the DIY answers for you. If you really do it, get the tools and lifts that you really need for the job. I'm sure you will have fun and learn a lot either way.

OK guys - I get the message. The "easiest method" is anything but easy unless you own a fully equiped garage. In order to reduce the chances of killing myself or anyone else I think I will revert back to plan A of lifting the engine out with an engine crane.

Interestingly (but only because of the previous post) - I have done the epreviously discussed "up and over" job on a mini although I guess the front end of a mini is a lot lighter to lift over the engine and subframe than the rear end of the GTA would be. 2 strong mates grabbed a side each and lifted and I pulled out the engine/gearbox/subframe. Ahh life seemed so simple in those days.....

So - back to the second part of my original question - should I change the timing sprockets or not? and are there any other parts that I should plan to replace/refurbush while the engine is out?

Just to clarrify. When i did my car, i was not lifting the car on an engine crane. The car was on a 'sizzor lift'. So as it bagan to lift, it was moving forward as well. These are brilliant bits of kit for this job. By the time the lift was at its full hieght the rear assembly of the car was alredy over half way out and about 3 feet behind the back of the car. Plus to get it all back together, you can simply lower it into position. There was, ofcoarse still some moving about to be done, but no chance of getting trapped under anything... I think you can hire these lifts for a pretty reasonable rate.