Some Electrics no worky

According to my ' 89 turbo wiring info .
It's Circuit breaker relay and the fuse should be heating/air con on certain models .Does your rad fan work ?Test it by shorting the sensor .Maybe it's been bypassed at some point ? Time to look behind the panel
I remember when I removed my air con it had a separate set of fuses and relays up in the bonnet area controlling the fans .One of the rad fan fuses was always overheating and burning out ................

[BIG_MVS]

The rad fan works fine. My car doesn't have air con so I shouldn't need that fuse then? seems strange that it's burnt out at some point?

Has anyone got a pic of that relay (with serial numbers) so I can replace it?

It's the headlights that don't work. Just wondering/hoping someones else has had this before.

Martin, just for clarification, are you saying that the radio,horn etc, are now working. I note that according to your pic that fuse holder assembly looks identical to mine, and as Lee says, that the burnt out fuse holder is for the Interior fan and, if fitted, air conditioning. On my car there are two screws above the relay assembly, that when removed, the whole assembly hinges down exposing the rear of the relays, and giving access to another bank of relays 15 throu 23, less 19, 20, 21. on my diag.
scottydog has sent me a set of cct diags for your 1986 model, which I thank him for, unfotunately they have not turned up yet, when they arrive I will have a good look for your prob, but please can you confirm all the items that do not work, clearly I can only go on the information given, otherwise we will go around in circles
In the mean time, have you checked and cleaned the earth point behind the panel alongside your right foot
Cheers

John

. My car doesn't have air con so I shouldn't need that fuse then? seems strange that it's burnt out at some point?

My reading of this is that the non aircon cars have an interior fan for the normal heating/dimisting, and this fuse feeds that fan, so you will need it

[BIG_MVS]

Cheers Lee.

Just to confirm you get a click when you bang the fuse box and it all works , it clicks again then goes off. The following does not work:

Radio
Headlights
Trip Computer
Horn
Central Locking

The interior fan works so maybe that has been re-wired? Not had chance to investigate any further.

Cheers Lee.

Just to confirm you get a click when you bang the fuse box and it all works , it clicks again then goes off. The following does not work:

Radio
Headlights
Trip Computer
Horn
Central Locking

The interior fan works so maybe that has been re-wired? Not had chance to investigate any further.

Yes, there is an intermittent connection, or earth, on to what I expect will turn out to be a common relay, or relays, that feeds all the faulty items.
If you look behind the burnt out fuse holder, I think you will find two wires that used to go to the fuse holder, joined together, hopefully with an inline fuse of sorts.
I can only wait for scottydogs cct copies in order to hopefully find a common link somewhere. In the meantime........that earth

[BIG_MVS]

Right had a chance to have a look behind the fuses and relays. It was like opening an Egyptian Tomb, unfortunately the tomb robbers had been there before and had left a mess!! Mainly due to the CAT1 Alarm gadgetry box(apologies for poor picture quality as I took them on my phone):



Thankfully as John suggested the burnt out fuse has been replaced by cutting the 2 wires and putting a bridged fuse in it's place so that sorts that:



Coming to my original problem, as I took the panel down there were a couple of loose looking relays and I pushed them all home. Since then I have tested the electrics and there has been no clicking and loss of juice so hopefully a loose connection. Although I can't help thinking that in true Alpine fashion it will return

All the top relays have been taken down and replaced/checked over the years so I'm going to fix them back in place and tidy it up a bit. This is the main row taken from my breaker, is it correct as John's diagram shows 8 relays that should be on this but I can only find 7 (only 6 attched to the rail)Also anyone know which is the interior light relay as that's another one which needs replacing (does not work at all):





Going back to the relay number 6 this is the only relay I can find in my box of bits which looks like Clee's:



Anyone with a late turbo confirm this(take of the fuse panel and it's the bottom left relay above the actual fuses - Thanks in advance!)

Couple of other relay questions, is this the intermittant wiper relay?



What is this one, it sits under the steering wheel?

1. Coming to my original problem, as I took the panel down there were a couple of loose looking relays and I pushed them all home. Since then I have tested the electrics and there has been no clicking and loss of juice so hopefully a loose connection.

2. This is the main row taken from my breaker, is it correct as John's diagram shows 8 relays that should be on this but I can only find 7 (only 6 attched to the rail)

3. Also anyone know which is the interior light relay as that's another one which needs replacing (does not work at all):

4. Going back to the relay number 6 this is the only relay I can find in my box of bits which looks like Clee's:

5. Couple of other relay questions, is this the intermittant wiper relay?

6. What is this one, it sits under the steering wheel?

1. Well done Martin, looks as though you have cracked it. What I would actually do now, would be to tap each relay carefully, to see if any relay produces the fault, but somehow I doubt it, but it is a good check.

2. I think we have found that my diags bear no resemblence to any diags for your model. I might be able to tell you more when I get scottydog`s copies.

3. My trick for this would be to pull each relay out one at a time and find out what does not work. Have a pad with you, and write them all down.

4. No not the same. Lee`s relay has 5 pins, and ref No. is 01 415, but yours has 4 pins and ref No, is 02 003.

5. Possibly, but just unplug and check.

6. Dont know, again unplug and see.

Having tapped around as I suggest in No.1, before boxing everything up, I would go for a run (in daylight) and check things like radio, horn, and lights, if all is OK. tidy it all up, I would use a load of cable ties, to stop all the cable forms jumping around, if left hanging free, they can work on the relay holders, and cause them to work loose.
Let us know how you get on

John

PS. Remember to check and clean that earth point before putting it all away, it is the most important one for the relays, and there is a possibility that just by pulling the cableform around, it scratched through the surface corrosion and is now making contact, but if this was a problem, it could come back

[BIG_MVS]

I'll have a go later in the week. The wife is still in hospital so I have got my hands full with 2 rugrats and the day job.

John, have you not got that relay no 6 on your Atmo then?

Any late turbo owners (1989 -1990 onwards) willing to check for me at all

The wife is still in hospital so I have got my hands full with 2 rugrats and the day job.

John, have you not got that relay no 6 on your Atmo then?

Martin
Sorry to hear about your wife, hope its not too serious ......with regard to relay No. 6, no relay, just a shorting link
John

Also anyone know which is the interior light relay as that's another one which needs replacing (does not work at all):

Now this one is dead simple to check I am assuming that it not only does not work with the door opening operation, it also does not work if you operate its own two way switch in its fitment, as you say (does not work at all). If you remove the interior light lens, you will find 3 wires. One will be earth, Black, one will be Red. 12v before ign, and the other will be Orange with White tracer. So with your trusty meter, you should connect it across the red and black, and you should get 12v, (ign off). If you have 12 v, try manually switching the lights on, and if lights still dont work, the fitments own switch may have tarnished contacts, mine did once. If you cant see 12v there, try finding another earth point, radio case or something, as the earth for the interior lights is...........M10.
The "Interior light timer relay" will have 6 wires going to it.... there cant be many relays like that. I assume you have checked the bulbs..... take them in and out a couple of times to check their connections have not gone high resistance
Before you go looking for the timer relay, check the above......only when you have the lights operating manually, do you need to go looking for the relay if it still does not work on opening the doors, or when you unlock the doors remotely......For info, the feed from the relay comes in on the orange/white tracer wire.
The other thing to note is the interior light, shares its fuse with the Cigar lighter, and is No.3 fuse.... Worth checking first
Hope this helps
John

First of all, Thanks to scottydog, a full copy of the D501 1986 Wiring diagram has arrived, and I am indebted to him for going to all that trouble, especially as he wont accept any payment for the copying, and postage, Thanks Simon, I owe you one
Now that I have had time to go through the various ccts, I have found a common link with all the items, bar one, which if it goes intermittent, will give the problems that Martin had. You may recall one of my early postings re. this problem:-

so there will be a number of earth cables coming off these relays but they all will not go directly to the earth seperately, I am sure each of the relay earths will go to a buss bar of sorts, ie:- a junction, where they will all be connected too, with one larger cable going down to M10. I think that is where the fault lies,

Well it turns out that there is a junction 495 on page 1 of the manual, which you will see has one (large) wire going to the earth point I called M10 (in my manual), which on the 1986 manual, is called 517.
If you check the ccts for the Horn relay, its coil goes to earth via 495. The Full Beam relay coil goes to earth via 495 The Computer earth goes via 495, the Wipers relay coil goes to earth via 495, and the Door Locking relays coil goes to earth via 495, as does the earth from the remote locking receiver.The cct below shows how the 495 junction is used for the main beam relay coil earth, and an earth for the Warning Lights Box.



The only one that does not pass through 495 according to the manual, is the radio, as its earth goes to the other side foot well. However the manual shows the ccts for the LHD Alp, and I can only think that for some reason or another, the Radio earth for the RHD Alp could be different, and go to 517 via 495, but thats only a guess.
The manual writers have conveniently done a diag showing Earth 517, and junction 495.



I dont know, but I suspect 495 is an inline crimp connector, or similar, with a large wire coming up from 517 into one end, and a number of smaller wires from the other end going to the relays, or the other non relayed components.
Junction 495 could be buried in the wrappings of the loom, but you should be able to get to it. I suspect you can feel a lump in the loom.
My feeling is that there is an intermittent wire in that junction, and when you dropped the fuse box down the twisting of the loom remade it. I really think this junction must be checked.
Hope this helps when you have time to get around to it

John

Martin, in answer to your relay position/function questions, according to the writeups in the manual:-

The second from the left appears to be the "Interior Lights Timer Relay", the one in the middle is the "Door Locking Timer Relay".



I confirm that according to my info, you are right, it is the "Intermittent Wiper relay" it also starts, and runs the wipers when you press the "Windscreen Wash" switch.



This one that sits under the steering wheel is the "Oil Gauge Unit" which drives the oil pressure and level gauges.



Hope this is of help to you

John

[BIG_MVS]

Update time and we have a result!!

The wife is back at home so this gave me a few hours to sort the problem.

I firstly tidied all the relays and secured them properly on their rail. I then went for a drive and all was well. I then closed the relay door so to speak and everything went off again Next I started wiggleing wires and eventually found that it was the wires going into the back of my "broken" relay.

I removed what I thought were the remnants of a bigger relay(as per clee's relay).



Seen as nobody had come back to me with what the relay was like in the later cars I went to Chester and had a look at our breaker (1990). Look what I found:





It looks like some sort of bridge?? Anyway put this one into my car and hey presto no problems at all

For reference here is the indicator relay (think someone was having indicator problems?)



Also I replaced this relay and the interior lights then started to work, another result!



Thanks to JohnC and Turbodog for their help and assistance