Turret pockets - rear wheel arches

Can anyone tell me what the steel pockets are for at the top of the wheelarch? These are the steel inserts(boxes) approx. 5" x 2" that bolt to the suspension uprights and are inset into the body?
They are quite heavy gauge steel so they must do something? The only thing I can think of is that they are supports for the bodywork.

On my car they are badly corroded, which I assume that they are on others as well? I have looked through the parts list and do not see them listed anywhere.

I would like to replace them, does anyone know if they are available?

Not sure what you mean .The only bit I can think of like that is the subframe location area ? Can you point at it ?

[BIG_MVS]

Put your head inside the rear wheel arch and turn upwards, it's right in the top.

My red car had this crusty box section, it was an advisory on the MOT but did not fail as it was felt they were not structural. However:

Be VERY careful if trying to repair/weld in this area as I have heard of a car where welding heat has caused the glue bonding the rear turrets to fail and cause the turret to come away from the main tub.

My advice would be to leave well alone.

The actual pockets are not in your photograph, they are actually at the very top of the wheel arch and bolt on to the top of the suspension mount.

They are not obvious and they look just like a rectangular hole in the top of the wheelarch. As I mentioned they are made of pretty thick gauge material ( what is left!!), probably .100" min thick, so they must be used for something, They dont seem to do anything for the subframe/suspemsion turret, so they must have some function to help support the rear bodywork, but I don't understand why they made them that shape?

They are well sealed to the fibreglass and bolted at 2 places to the suspension turret???

Puzzled!!!

Ahhhh I see !!!!! That'll be the roll bar fixing , NOT STRUCTURAL AT ALL....................... Shhhhh don't tell that MOT man .

These are really, really important and stop the shock towers collapsing inwards. It would appear that they can get extremely crusty and still perform their function, but as Martin says, any attempt the repair them had better be good.

These brackets are attached with 5 bolts; 2 to the side of the turret top, 2 through the wing into the roll bar (these 4 are all M8s), and one M10 bolt facing away from the turret that also attaches to the roll bar structure. The latter also has a heavy steel spacer with a 'u' notch to slide over the bolt. The brackets are also bonded with a urethane type material but you can remove them - I've done it!

The parts are listed (Part nos 6001005413/414) but no longer available but they are heavy duty and can be stripped/refurbed. The box corners are simply spot weded together, and corrosion builds between the faces around the welds - easily solved though, just seam weld the joins. The metal is really heavy gauge so will take a high current.

I stripped mine in acid, seam welded the box corners, then painted with 2 coats of 1:2:1 epoxymastic. They seat back in place with a liberal layer of sikaflex or similar and I used stainless bolts to resecure (cut new spacers for the larger bolt, also in stainless). You then need to back-fill around the box with urethane (sikaflex is best) to get a good seal. The reason they tend to rust is that firstly they are merely 'shown' a tin of paint before being rather sparsely bond-sealed in place.

Reassembly can be a tad tricky as the roll bar assembly can shift out of place, but it can be done with patience!

Good luck!

Paul T

P.S. If anyone is interested in how to remove the engine cradle with the engine/gearbox left in situ then that also is possible, had mine out and it's now back in situ fully refurbished - never moved the engine/box.

P.S. If anyone is interested in how to remove the engine cradle with the engine/gearbox left in situ then that also is possible, had mine out and it's now back in situ fully refurbished - never moved the engine/box.

Been thinking it was very possible ,nice to know it is , take the weight of the engine/box on a hoist .I had to do that when I forgot to shove the gear linkages forward one time ......

I can see how you might support engine/gbox with a hoist or similar, but like many others I don't have those facilities. A hoist also tends to allow the engine unit to shift slightly - my method doesn't. Won't go into great detail here but essentially I supported the car body, engine and gearbox with separate blocks, all situated to retain the relative positioning of engine, gearbox and car body. With everything supported you can then remove all ancillary components (including suspension to reduce the weight - 'fraid I'm a one-man band and can only lift so much!), then unbolt and lower the cradle which can then be removed. I found it most secure to support the engine without the sump - nice flat face to support.

Let me know if any of you want more detail.

Paul T

Guys,
Thanks for the bad or good news, I am not sure which one it is??? I thought there was some importance attached to them because of the gauge of the material, so the good news is that I now understand how important they are!!!

The bad news - is that there is no fear of welding them in-situ,as there is very little left. I started prodding aound on Sat and peices of it stated falling out?

They will have to be replaced and by the sound of it are not available so will have be manufactured.

Does anyone have any sizes of them and any idea where the bolts are and how awkward they are to remove. I can see the 2 holding them to the suspension turret, but can't say I saw any others.

I think I will have to use some liberal coating of underseal as the MOT is due ( main brake pipe corroded front/rear) until I can make up some replacements.

Regarding the main brake pipe - I recommend that everyone has a closs examiniation of the pipe if it hasn't already been changed. The pipe was corroded much worse on the topside of the pipe which is very difficult to see from underneath. It was like this at least 3 of the clipping locations, and is a catastrphe waiting to happen!!!
It really was very bad and not easy to replace either.

Thanks,

Jeff

Bolts to turret

Two through to roll bar

Other side showing bar

Jeff

Without seeing the extent of the corrosion it is difficult to assess what you should do, but even had the corrosion not been too bad welding is not an option! As has already been implied you would end up melting the fibre glass into which the boxes are mounted.

The bolts are there as the photos show. The larger one is opposite the right hand turret bolt and once you have stripped the gunk and rust off should release with plenty of lubricant. The smaller M8s (all pictured by 'clee') you will need to be more careful with but the bolts into the turret should free as you can get to both sides (for lubricating). You will see the back of the roll bar bolts (in clee's pic) if you remove the plastic vent trim behind the side window - you should then be able to spray some DWF or similar on the end of the bolts. Just go carefully, they're not overtight but obviously corroded in your case.

As to the size, once you have stripped all the rubbish off the surface (chisel or similar) try measuring what you see - you won't be far off - just allow for 3mm steel thickness all round. Only the holes are critically positioned. If you can get the 'shell' out, even if heavily corroded that should give you enough to measure.

Best of luck.

Paul T

Paul,

I am afraid that the nearside is well gone. I have had the car for over 12 years now and over that period have realised that they were prone to rust and I have always squirted waxoyl up there.
It was only when I decided to treat as much corrosiion as I can when doing the brake pipe that I realised how bad they were. When I proded the pocket the top fell out exposing the white underside of the body, so it is pretty ripe.

Where did you get the part numebrs of them from? Can you let me know what frame number they are in. I have looked in 43.011 which shows the roll bar, but I can't see the part numbers.

I tried my local Renault dealer today and it seems that one of the part numbers may still be available, but only from France, approx. £18 each. I am waiting for him to get back to me. Failing that I will size some out of cardboard and fabricate some, but it would be easier if I could manage to get hold of one.

The bolts attached to the suspension turret should be OK to remove, but I haven't had chance to look at the roll bar bolts yet, Judging from Clee's pictures, it looks if the nuts are captive on the roll bar which will be more of an issue to remove if they are heavilly rusted. Until I look at them I won't know if it easy to get e drill on them?

Thanks for all the information, it is really appreciated.

Jeff

Hello Jeff

Just go on a couple of pages to 43.102. I know this is a D503 frame but the component is the same and for some reason missed off the GTA sheet. My car is an early A610, so I looked at the D503 sheet first. When I tried to order the parts (17 and 18 on the frame) the price was only about £5 ea, but they never came!

Any scrapped car might yield a usable pair (you could hack straight through the upper wing if you could find a donor), or had you thought of asking Andreas Simon (Simon Automotive) - he might be able to provide you with a salvaged pair. Failing all of that I would fabricate my own out of 3mm steel. You could cut each side separately and have the box seam welded together as the steel will be quite hard to bend (doesn't this shout for a stainless steel replacement - I'll bet these boxes are far more corroded than a lot of folks realise). My car is still on stands without any rear suspension at the moment so I can easily measure the internal dimensions if you get stuck. PM me if you want a chat by 'phone - talking tends to be easier!

Finally, all the nuts are captive and the ones on the roll bar seem to be fairly strongly fixed. The risk here is that you might shear the bolts and then only a dremel with a grinding bit will get you out of trouble. You'll never get a proper drill anywhere near!

All the best

Paul

Just found the same problem on my nearside.....



A few questions..

1. This needs to be fixed - but is the car safe to drive when it's this badly corroded?

2. Does the suspension turret itself corrode? Is there a chance that when I remove what's left of the box the suspension turret will be as bad? What I can see looks OK though.

3. Is there anything I need to know about removing the box? Will anything shift so I can't get new bolts in etc.... ?

4. Suitable job for an amateur, or does it need a professional bodyshop to sort it?

Thanks!