want to join me, as an A310 owner?

[Alpineandy]

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... 07824&rd=1

or maybe you don't!

I'd bloody love that car! Looks really tidy.....but 110kw as power??? Surely thats wrong!?! Are they much smaller and lighter than the GTA?

The A310 is a foot or 2 shorter than a GTA and they are a couple of hunderd kilos lighter depending on which models you compare

[Alpineandy]

I'd bloody love that car! Looks really tidy.....but 110kw as power??? Surely thats wrong!?! Are they much smaller and lighter than the GTA?

That's right, Only 150 bhp.
About 1040 kg (or 1070, I can't remember)

That aint much lighter....GTA is 1080-1170kg isnt it? Mine weighs a bit less thanks to some careful weight saving. But they are a nice looking car. Perhaps I'd have one for the road and keep the GTA just for competition.....given the space and money!

4 cylinder A310 weighs under a ton and a GTA turbo 1186kg. You would feel a 100kgs difference in the weigh the car accelerates - like having another 20bhp right through the rev range.

An A310 V6 weighs 980 Kg's and has 150hp while the 4 cylinder model weighs 840kg and has 125hp and shorter gearing. The 4 cylinder is the best balanced and handling of all the Alpines, mainly because of its light weight, quicker steering rack, more competition oriented suspension settings and the light engine hanging out the back.

The 310 V6 on the other hand can easily produce 240hp with a very drivable engine so both these cars are great for competition work - the V6 for power to weight with excellent handling and the 4 cylinder either for under 2 litre classes or where great handling is all important. Of course a turbo V6 engine is an easy fit into the V6 model so, if rules allow, this one is always going to win the power to weight race.

The GTA's are much better road cars and if expense is no object, can be made the fastest competition car - see the twin turbo 1994 Le Mans car as an example.

The only real answer is to have a 310 for competition and a GTA for road use!

[Alpineandy]

An A310 V6 weighs 980 Kg's

Yes sorry, 980kg. I checked the book.
I'm sure the plate in the engine compartment says 1040. but I keep forgetting to check....

The only reason I knew is because I've had a V6 modified for tarmac classic rallies and I'm currently building a 4 cylinder version for the same purpose. Getting the weight down within the rules is always a challenge so I tend to look closely at the starting weight. I'm trying to get the 4 cylinder down to 800Kg with roll cage, so minor things like the heater, stereo, electric window mechanisms, standard heavy seats, engine cover, etc have all been thrown out.
Once you do all these things they become fairly primitive as a road car, hence the desire for a 310 for competition and a GTA for the road.

"Alby" any chance you can post info on the engine tuning, suspension setup and pics ?
I'm forever unable it seems to finance an A110
Plans for next years Monte Carlo classic have fallen through as we've found out the Mini has little chance of being accepted ( LOTS of Mini's apply )
I was wondering about an A310, but dont' know ANYTHING about this model in the Alpine range.
Would love to get some advice and see some results.

Sure Alpinist. Were you more interested in the V6 or in the 4 cylinder?

As per my earlier post the V6 is faster outright and on a race track (where you have a bit more sliding room and run off areas) whilst the 4 cylinder is still pretty fast and has fanatastic handling. I have chosen the 4 cylinder deliberately for this reason as on tarmac rallies such as Targa Tasmania or Classic Adelaide the roads are narrow and there is no margin for error (lots of trees and cliffs) - I actually think on these sort of roads a properly sorted 4 cylinder will be as fast as the V6 or even faster because it can be driven with more confidence. Similarly in comparison to an A110, even though its a bit heavier the 310 4 cylinder has far better suspension and brakes (and as a non-professional driver I see a big advantage in having a car that's as easy and vice free as possible to drive fast).

I also chose the 310's because I would never have the funds for an A110, but now I'm glad that I did!

By the way, both 310's have interesting competition records including Monte Carlo - not as succesful as the A110 of course, partly because of the advent of the Lancia Stratos (purpose built for the job), partly that the drivers didn't initially like a car that had to be driven smoothly rather than with the tail out everywhere, and partly because Renault changed their focus to winning Le Mans and then F1.

Anyway, if its of interest I'll start a new post with some details and thoughts as soon as I've got a spare hour or two. May be next week before I can do it.

[Alpineandy]

any chance you can post info on the engine tuning, suspension setup and pics ?

You beat me to it!

Hi Alby, Is yours a 3 or 4 stud.
I'm looking to use my 3 stud V6 for some track days this year and really need to sort the suspension.

Cheers

Hi Alpineandy,

Just a quick response for now. My V6 was 3 stud, all 4 cylinders are 4 stud. On the V6 I used 15x8 wheels on the back and 15x7 on the front with Yokohama 032 tyres all round, 225/50 on back and 205/50 on front. I used Performance mags (minilite lookalike) drilled to suit the hubs. These wheels are a bit heavy and am using the same sizes but lighter wheels on current car. Wider wheels would have been a waste of time as 15 inch semi-race type tyres (the largest diameter I could go for under our rules) don't come in larger than 225 widths.

I found I was getting bad brake fade after about 3-4 laps of most circuits so went to larger (around 290mm) ventilated discs with RX7 front calipers and a mixture of the original front and rear calipers for the back. This was a fantastic set-up but possibly overkill and large discs are heavy. I'd now try larger discs (but not as large) but stick to non-ventilated at the back, or even experiment with just other pad types and cooling ducts. I'm putting 273mm peugeot 505 disc's on my 4 cylinder which is nearly 200 kg lighter and has peugeot stud pattern.

I left the rollbars alone but used 20% firmer springs all round with adjustable Koni's and heights - after experimenting dropped the ride height about 1 inch all round. Tried much firmer springs initially, but whilst these were good on the track, they were way too stiff for tarmac rallies or for road use.

The final suspension set-up as described was excellent. Still road useable, great on tarmac rallies, pretty good on the track. However, it was very sensitive to getting the rear ride height correct. The engine in these is a bigger proportion of the overall weight than in a GTA and the rear suspension is not as developed as on a GTA. Further, height decides the amount of negative camber on the rear wheels unless you get adjustable arms made which can be a rule problem and is expensive.

Too low and you get an understeering car with snap oversteer when the heavily negative rear finally decides to let go. Too high and you get lots of oversteer but better progression. Just right and you get a good balance between these two but it will always be a car that understeers coming into a bend and oversteers under power coming out. Unless your the last of the late brakers with lots of trailing brake in which case it just oversteers everywhere which is a lot of fun but not that fast. No matter how right you get it, it will always be a twitchy car in poor conditions (eg wet) but nowhere near as bad as a 70's or 80's 911. I've had one of these and far prefer the Alpine and plenty of times beat or passed 911's on rallies and track, including 911 turbo's which are even worse.

Thats it for now - got carried away but would love to see more Alpines in competition work so hope it helps. The 310 V6 is a great track day car even in standard form whilst the above mods make it competitive with much more modified cars. If someone tells me how to post photo's I'll put some up.

Hi Alpineandy again,

I realised afterward that the mods described above are probably more than you're looking for with occasional track days in mind. I used my 310 V6 for track days for about a year in totally standard trim before the mods started and had a ball. These are such good cars that you will still have a lot of fun, learn a lot and beat a surprising number of cars. Just be careful in the wet as the rear can come around surprisingly fast under wet track conditions until you get used to it..

For limited mods my recommendations would be to start with some decent shockers, preferably Koni's all round, then consider the brakes - harder pads, race brake fluid and if you're handy, some air ducting to the front brakes. Finally, get some decent tyres and preferably wheels as well. This will make it a really good car both on the road and track.

Reason I have tyres third is that its more important and more fun to get the handling balance and braking right first. Better tyres will give a good benefit in lap times but also usually at the cost of progressiveness in transitions. Therefore you can really only make the most use of them when you've got the rest of the handling sorted and had some practice with controlling the occasional slide on tyres which make this easy and corners with run-off area.

Well, thats my theory anyway!

[Alpineandy]

Hi Alby,
Thanks for the info.
My 3 stud (the yellow one in the pictures section - croix 2004) already has a spax adjustable platform suspension (I think it's fleishman), Gottis with 195/50/15 goodyear NCT front and 225/50/15 yokos on the back. One of the rear shockers has seized but I have the replacements (both back) to go on. I'm trying to work out whether I should get some poly bushes done for it. Brakes wise I'm looking into pads and will upgrade the fluid when that's decided. Also I will arrange some ducting as the spoiler reduces the normal airflow slightly. I'll probably go for braided brake hoses as well.
Then it'll be all guns ablazing....... until a tyre barrier disagrees

On my 4 stud I've just got some mini-lites 7 & 8 x 15 to replace the metrics. Bearing in mind that it's standard and staying that way (that's what the 3 studs for..) do you think I could fit 195/60/15 and 225/60/15's?

Cheers


ps Steve's always looking for members pictures for the gallery.