Starter motor problems

Since the engine was out, I am suffering a few starting problems. There is just nothing when I turn the key from normal ignation to the starter position.

On a couple of ocassions, I wiggled the 2 wires that go to the spade connectors on the starter solenoid and then after a turn of the key she would fire into life.

Does any one know why there are 2 wires to the solenoid, I am guessing that one is a feed form the ignition, but what is the other? One is wider that the other so as you can only put them on one way round. Might the other be a secondary earth?

There is also a big bolt on terminal, which I am guessing is the main positive supply for the motor.

I have had a look at the wiring diagram on page 4, of these 3 wires I have, the manual shows only 2. ??? ??? ???

Any tips, pointers or suggestions?

The secondary pin on the starter is one that gets energised off the battery when the solenoid engages. if you probe it, you'll see that it doesn't appear to connect to anything whereas the other appears to connect to ground. The one that appears to be grounded is in fact the solenoid's positive feed to switch it on (a coil is just a wire so to a multimeter it will look like a dead short).

This secondacy feed is acting like a relay and when the starter is engaged, it has a solid 12v on it. It could be used to "tell" the ecu the starter has been engaged. The K-Jet engine uses it as a feed to fire the cold start injector (via a thermal trip so it does nothing when warm).

Having de-wired Darren's engine a week or so ago, I remember his only had the one spade connector on it. Yes the big badger is the battery feed.

I suggest cutting off and re-crimping both wires and cleaning up the spades on the motor.

Yep sounds like the the trigger wire and yes a bad connection means that the starter won't turn at all. I had this years ago on two seperate occasions and it's a right pain.

Essentially the starter needs to see ~12v feed to the solenoid to engage the gear AND THEN close the circuit to turn the starter motor over.

Those spade connectors are very sensitive to corrosion and if they're dirty then they don't supply the full voltage and nothing at all happens. Mine stopped working years ago when the small hose from the oil cooler sprang a leak and sent a jet of coolant over the trigger wire. A day later the car wouldn't turn over and I was left scratching my head

Martin, now i'm even more confused.

I thought the star was earthed throug the body and had a perminant live connection, the big red wire that is bolted on.

when you turn the key, the solenoid is a bit like a relay, it throws the pinion wheel onto the starter ring and then also makes a circuit for the starter.

So "why" do I have 2 little wires on the solenoid, and I'm confused by your explanation, do you have a 'simple' diagram?
Are you simply suggesting that one of the spade terminals is an output feed to the ECU, for sure?

Also, using a meter to test and trace a bad connection will not be reliable for me as I know I have a dodgy wire.

BTW, 1 spade is a bit bigger than the other, so they will only go on one way round.

The solenoid has nothing to do with the starter engaging. It just energises the motor like a big relay. The pinion is on a screw type thingy with a return spring. When it spins, the gear shoots forward and engages.

Why do you have two wires? I don't know. You shouldn't need them. But I suggest re-crimping and cleaning them up. Worry about the "why" if it doesn't then work. (coming from the guy who adamantly persues understanding on everything!)

http://www.prestolite.com/pgs_training/training_4.php

After some more investigation this morning, and reading the wiring manual, I can report the following.

The top spade connector has a black plastic protective cover and the bottom one has a white cover, both are heat protected and the top wire is black and the bottom wire is white.

I disonected the bottom white wire, and the starter worked, so I am assuming that the top wire is the trigger.

Was out and about in it today, a pig to get going, but it started about 8 times on and off during the day and is also fine this evening.

I shall make up a 'hot-wire' system so that I can just connect a live connection to the solenoid top connector with an inline switch (and fuse) fo easy starting if wiggleing the wires fails (which it did on about 10 attempts this am).

Might be more than wiring ................Where did you wiggle it
Coincidence is a botch to sort

i think i'll check my earths again,
any maybe a tie wrap to hold the wires in a good position will help too !

I spent aeons fiddling around with the spade connectors on my starter because of intermittent starting problems, even getting a new solenoid fitted.

Turned out it was........yep.....my earths! Namely, the battery one.

the ignition switch can also give trouble,

if you hold the key round to the start postion and the starter does not work, try giving the key a wiggle while still in the start postion and see what happens.

i have changed two switches because of this fault.

[Alpineandy]

i think i'll check my earths again,
any maybe a tie wrap to hold the wires in a good position will help too !

This could be a useful tip..... DO NOT USE A TIE-WRAP AS AN EARTH !

i think i'll check my earths again,
any maybe a tie wrap to hold the wires in a good position will help too !

This could be a useful tip..... DO NOT USE A TIE-WRAP AS AN EARTH !

You old codgers You can get metal tie wraps ..............Wotever will they think of next

Yes , I have some as well.

[Alpineandy]