Upgrade engine oil?

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Re: oil for gtas

Postby LiamMcShane » Mon Nov 15, 2004 10:34 am

turbodog wrote:My car always runs at 3 bar ticking over and 6 bar running. With mobil 1 my tickover dropped to 2 bar, very worrying. I mentioned this to the garage, they then informed me that there was another mobil 1 called mobil 1 racing. It is no dearer than the ordinary and since installing this the engine is now running at its correct pressure.


Shit! Is that the correct pressure! My car runs at about 1 bar on the guage when ticking over, and about 4-5 bar when driving. Simonsays advised me to change the oil for 20w 50 to thicken it up a bit. Will this cure it, or is it something more serious?
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Re: oil for gtas

Postby oilman » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:30 pm

LiamMcShane wrote:
turbodog wrote:My car always runs at 3 bar ticking over and 6 bar running. With mobil 1 my tickover dropped to 2 bar, very worrying. I mentioned this to the garage, they then informed me that there was another mobil 1 called mobil 1 racing. It is no dearer than the ordinary and since installing this the engine is now running at its correct pressure.


Shit! Is that the correct pressure! My car runs at about 1 bar on the guage when ticking over, and about 4-5 bar when driving. Simonsays advised me to change the oil for 20w 50 to thicken it up a bit. Will this cure it, or is it something more serious?


Remember pressure is measured by resistance and not flow, and flow is more important.

Cheers

Guy.
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Postby LiamMcShane » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:40 pm

And how could I check that? I'm a bit clueless!!! :lol:
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Postby oilman » Mon Nov 15, 2004 12:56 pm

LiamMcShane wrote:And how could I check that? I'm a bit clueless!!! :lol:


Ok,

Use a thin oil and you will read low oil pressure, use a thick oil and it will read high oil pressure.

Middle ground is where you want to be.

Use a good quality oil and you will get good oil flow.

Hope this helps, as there is no real way to measure flow.

Cheers

Guy.
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Postby LiamMcShane » Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:06 pm

Cheers Guy. I think I'll change it for 15w 40 or 15w 50
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Postby oilman » Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:10 pm

LiamMcShane wrote:Cheers Guy. I think I'll change it for 15w 40 or 15w 50


The best grade I can think of would a 10w-50. Will give good cold start protection and also will give good protection when hot, consider the Silkolene Pro S 10w-50 as this contains ester.

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Postby LiamMcShane » Mon Nov 15, 2004 1:12 pm

Once again, thanks Guy. I'll change it at the weekend.
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Postby oilman » Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:43 am

You will find plenty of technical data on 7 brands of oil here to download.

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm

Cheers
Guy
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engine oil

Postby clivebawden » Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:18 pm

Question for Guy (oilman), and anyone else who wants to chip in, of course:
In your opinion, if we use a good synthetic oil in our cars can we extend the oil change interval? As I recall, oil changes every 6000 miles are recommended in the service book, but I would have thought that one of the main advantages of a synthetic oil is that it doesn't break down, and this is one reason why service intervals on modern cars are getting longer. I use my GTA every day, and 6000 miles is going to come round in about 6 months, so it's a bit of a pain to have to change the oil so frequently.
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Postby Alpiniste » Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:25 pm

AS we have an expert here (oilman), can help me with some advice ...

NEO Synthetic - Australian friend is using this in his race car and says it is wokring really well so far. He says becuase it uses di-Ester (?) then it's better protection. But he didnt' seem to know much about it's longevity or any drawbacks. Id it worth trying ??

is there a good place to get the REAL lowdown on all these synthetics and additives ? is it here :) ??
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Postby oilman » Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:16 pm

Alpiniste wrote:AS we have an expert here (oilman), can help me with some advice ...

NEO Synthetic - Australian friend is using this in his race car and says it is wokring really well so far. He says becuase it uses di-Ester (?) then it's better protection. But he didnt' seem to know much about it's longevity or any drawbacks. Id it worth trying ??

is there a good place to get the REAL lowdown on all these synthetics and additives ? is it here :) ??


I have not personally heard of the NEO Synthetic, but Di-esters I am familiar with, and yes they are good, they assist the additive pack in a motor oil formulation because they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), so they help to reduce wear and friction.

They are fluid at very low temperatures and at high temperatures they are very chemically stable and have low volatility (don’t evaporate away).

They also help to prevent hardening and cracking of oil seals at high temperatures.

TYPES OF SYNTHETIC BASESTOCKS

Synthetic basestocks are not all the same. There are few different chemical types that may be used as synthetic basestock fluids. There are only three that are seen commonly in automotive applications:

Polyalphaolefins (PAO's)
These are the most common synthetic basestocks used in the US and in Europe. In fact, many synthetics on the market use PAO basestocks exclusively. PAO's are also called synthesized hydrocarbons and contain absolutely no wax, metals, sulfur or phosphorous. Viscosity indexes for nearly all PAO's are around 150, and they have extremely low pour points (normally below –40 degrees F).
Although PAO's are also very thermally stable, there are a couple of drawbacks to using PAO basestocks. One drawback to using PAO's is that they are not as oxidatively stable as other synthetics. But, when properly additized, oxidative stability can be achieved.

Diesters
These synthetic basestocks offer many of the same benefits of PAO's but are more varied in structure. Therefore, their performance characteristics vary more than PAO's do. Nevertheless, if chosen carefully, diesters generally provide better pour points than PAO's
(about -60 to -80 degrees F) and are a little more oxidatively stable when properly additized.
Diesters also have very good inherent solvency characteristics which means that not only do they burn cleanly, they also clean out deposits left behind by other lubricants - even without the aid of detergency additives.
They do have one extra benefit though, they are surface-active (electrostatically attracted to metal surfaces), PAO’s are not “polar”, they are “inert”.

Polyolesters
Similar to diesters, but slightly more complex. Greater range of pour points and viscosity indexes than diesters, but some polyolester basestocks will outperform diesters with pour points as low as -90 degrees F and viscosity indexes as high as 160 (without VI additive improvers). They are also “polar”.

Other synthetic basestocks exist but are not nearly as widely used as those above - especially in automotive type applications. Most synthetics on the market will use a single PAO basestock combined with an adequate additive package to provide a medium quality synthetic lubricant. However, PAO basestocks are not all the same. Their final lubricating characteristics depend on the chemical reactions used to create them.

Premium quality synthetics will blend more than one "species" of PAO and/or will blend these PAO basestocks with a certain amount of diester or polyolester in order to create a basestock which combines all of the relative benefits of these different basestocks.

This requires a great deal of experience and expertise. As a result, such basestock blending is rare within the synthetic lubricants industry and only done by very experienced companies. In addition, although such blending creates extremely high quality synthetic oils, they don't come cheap. You get what you pay for!

Hope this explains, if I have missed anything out let me know!

Cheers

Guy.
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Postby Alpineandy » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:30 pm

oilman wrote:[
I have not personally heard of the NEO Synthetic, but Di-esters


Which UK available oils are Di-esters?
Alpine A110, Renault Safrane 2.5dt, Hudson Kindred Spirit (Renault powered), transAlp (Honda) and Ducati Multistrada
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Postby oilman » Tue Nov 23, 2004 11:44 pm

The two that we do are Silkolene PRO S and PRO R and Motul 300V range. Tech data here: http://www.opieoils.co.uk/lubricants.htm

Cheers
Guy
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Re: engine oil

Postby clivebawden » Wed Nov 24, 2004 12:58 pm

clivebawden wrote:Question for Guy (oilman), and anyone else who wants to chip in, of course:
In your opinion, if we use a good synthetic oil in our cars can we extend the oil change interval? As I recall, oil changes every 6000 miles are recommended in the service book, but I would have thought that one of the main advantages of a synthetic oil is that it doesn't break down, and this is one reason why service intervals on modern cars are getting longer. I use my GTA every day, and 6000 miles is going to come round in about 6 months, so it's a bit of a pain to have to change the oil so frequently.
Clive


Guy,
I think you missed my earlier question.
Clive
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Re: engine oil

Postby oilman » Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:12 pm

clivebawden wrote:
clivebawden wrote:Question for Guy (oilman), and anyone else who wants to chip in, of course:
In your opinion, if we use a good synthetic oil in our cars can we extend the oil change interval? As I recall, oil changes every 6000 miles are recommended in the service book, but I would have thought that one of the main advantages of a synthetic oil is that it doesn't break down, and this is one reason why service intervals on modern cars are getting longer. I use my GTA every day, and 6000 miles is going to come round in about 6 months, so it's a bit of a pain to have to change the oil so frequently.
Clive


Guy,
I think you missed my earlier question.
Clive


Clive,

Sorry missed that one.

With a good quality semi synthetic your looking at around 6000 mile change. If you were to use a true ester/pao synthetic you are looking at 9000 miles plus without problems, taking you oil change to around once a year.

True synthetics have to changed because of the addative deplition, this is the detergents and viscosity polymers that get used up as the oil does its job. Synthetic base stocks do not break down like minerals. This is due to the uniform size of the base molecules it is made from, its a bit like stacking empty egg boxes on top of each other, they dont want to shear abart because they fit. Mineral oils have different size base molucules so they do not stack as well, thus not as shear stable.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Guy.
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