Corky Bell

Renault & Alpine General Discussion

Intercooling

Std position, better core with good ducting
1
10%
CC linked to std to TB
3
30%
CC direct to TB
2
20%
Axel's big wing theory
4
40%
 
Total votes : 10
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simontaylor

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Postby simontaylor » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:52 am

OK.
Put an ice cube on a plate and another one in a jug of water at ambient temperature.
Which one melts first? Probably the one in the water. This implies that a CC would transfer heat better.
Do it again, but this time put a fan heater or hair dryer onto the cube on the plate, just blowing cold ambient air. This time the cube on the plate will probably melt first. This implies that an IC would transfer heat better.
The other simulation is to have the one in the water in a large volume of water and also to agitate and circulate the water. It will melt quicker, which is why it is important for the CC to have a good volume and flow of water around it.
Remember, what ever you do to an engine is a compromise, do you always drive at a speed for the engine to be at peak torque/power, No.... we have 5 gears, better than one but not as good as 'variable'. The CC is good for low speed, the IC is good for high speed, fit both and you get a better result and less of an overall compromise.

Just try to calculate how much air would go through the IC at 100mph. Then find some fans that can draw more than that. OR, from the fans throughput, work out at what speed this would be equal to.

Adding fans to the IC may reduce the overall compromise even more..... let us know how you progress.
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Postby David Gentleman » Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:14 am

simontaylor wrote:Remember, what ever you do to an engine is a compromise, do you always drive at a speed for the engine to be at peak torque/power, No.... we have 5 gears, better than one but not as good as 'variable'. The CC is good for low speed, the IC is good for high speed, fit both and you get a better result and less of an overall compromise.

.



But the other thing with intercoolers is they are very critical on placement, you can have a large good design, but if its sheilded, or doesnt get much airflow, or in a hot environment then it will be half efficient, wheres a CC core is not affected by ambient heat from the engine bay really, and the pre rad is of a small size that you can get most of the air too it. A CC is more of a constant, may not get as cold on the coldest days like a front mounted intercooler but then won't get as warm on a warm day.

End of the day we are talking rear engined cars. Intercooling is not an option really without making the car look weird or sticking small fans on that don't flow enough CFM to cool the core quick enough..
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Postby David Gentleman » Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:20 am

clee wrote:I will whip the bumper off and see what room there is .The 610 cooler is diff & slopes more so more room I suspect .It would still need some ducting to bring good air to the fans .
Not after any gains ,would like not to lose so much after 10 mins running .The CC is more weight but 8)


Its not really after 10 mins either, with the CC you can feel the car hold the gears longer straight away. If you think, the moment you first come on boost with the standard intercooler, you have over 150degrees of air instantly heating up the pre-intercooler pipe, and as Simon registered 70 degrees after, so the ally core, V6 pipe and inlet manifold are all nice and hot straight away. That pre-intercooler pipe then radiates heat straight next to the V6 pipe, and the now hot inlet manifold has heat rising vertically up into the plenum..

Hence why you want to replace the pre-intercooler pipe with the CC (so there is actually no 'hot' pipe in the system) as it is directly after the turbo and get the charge temps down to around 30 degrees.
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