Building a 3.0L engine

I could set the Adaptronic up to be exactly right for the angles if you like Martin.

Off a stock flywheel? I bet you a set of turbo pistons you can't. When Peter's got his back up and running, read off the figure in the map for, say, 5000rpm @ 100kPa and check with a digital timing light. I bet you find between a 5 and 10 degree offset

Of course I can, ill show you on my own car..

Its just the job of jiggling the figures on the trigger setup to suit.

No, it's definitely not. Trust me on this. The higher the value in the map, the greater the offset.

I'm not arguing the Adaptronic is good value, I've had three off you so far, and would use it again - but I'm fast running out of flywheels and they're *slightly* pricey from Renault! The next thing will be a simple 36/1 trigger on the end of the cam

On the subject of these pistons - have you ever supplied a set of 93mm turbo pistons? Do they mate up to the stock conrods and gudgeon pins? Do we rely on the stock liners? Why didn't you pipe up sooner - I went and bought the skyline instead of doing my engine build because I couldn't get pistons!

Ive always done pistons, why do you think I always say 'get forged pistons'...They are exact physical copies of the originals except for different dome heights. If you gave me an A610 piston, I could get an exact copy if you wanted.

Martin......I believe that Jonathon has already done the checks you are talking about, but I will ring him today. Who did the re-mapping of Tony's car and how did it come to light? Presumably the car now has more power as the igntion must have been retarded?

Martin......I believe that Jonathon has already done the checks you are talking about, but I will ring him today. Who did the re-mapping of Tony's car and how did it come to light? Presumably the car now has more power as the igntion must have been retarded?

He's talking about when they did the last run with the new trigger over the previous one..

I am currently using the original Z6W engine which had a machining tollerance on the heads .
I am building a Z7W engine from a late R25 to replace the original engine that has no machining tollerance on the heads.
Improvements are

Alloy rockers (nearly half the weight)
Higher ports (better flow onto the valve)
Bigger valves (obvious)
Even fire (no power gain but possibly smoother )

[Alpineandy]

I don't think there's anything on this one http://www.renaultalpineownersclub.com/ ... own+engine
But just in case....




PeterG, It looks like 2008 will be an expensive season for you

Could be 2010 at the rate I'm going!

Could be 2010 at the rate I'm going!

It will hover by then...

Looking back at old thread, I mentioned the 3.2 conversion which used standard pistons and liners, and the forged stroker crank I do. Now coupled with the 100mm liners and pistons that would make it 3.7 litre..

Just the small issue of £5k for a crank, liners and pistons...

[Alpineandy]

Could be 2010 at the rate I'm going!

It will hover by then...

I mis-read that 1st time... then realised that it could indeed be powered by hoover by then

Pete I would just get them to put a very conservative map on the adaptronic on the rollers then play with the ignition map on the road yourself, its really easy to play with the software and I've changed the ignition timing a fair bit since it was mapped. The problem is they map it for conditions it never sees on the road so when it goes on the road its suddenly got massively more cold air going in which causes it to det (its basically like running loads more boost all of a sudden) this maybe why yours went bang in the first place. I've been keeping an eye on the air fuel ratio and its the same at 1 bar on the road as it was at 1.2 bar on the rollers with the same amount of fuel going in! (my Lambda is still not reading so I'm stuck with the one fuel map at the moment). I reckon my car makes more power at 1 bar on the road than it makes at 1.2 bar on the rollers - thats how much hotter it gets. I'll get it up santa - pod in the spring in theory you need about 270-280 bhp in a GTA to make a 100mph terminal speed - and much kinder on the engine

Mmmm....with hindsight I dont think getting my car mapped in the July heatwave did it any good ! the next mapping session is likely to be in February so it shouldnt be such a problem. My aim (providing I actually get it working!) is to fit the necessary wideband set up to do the adaptive fuelling....I need some generous sponsorship from father in law this year!!!

And don't even mention to me again that you take the keyway pin out of the cam and just rely on the bolt in the end of the cam to hold the sprocket in position

Why not - plenty of production engines rely on a friction drive. I was advised that it is a safe procedure on the PRV and so far a combined 10,000+ miles with no problems says that's correct. I have also disassembled one engine after 3000 or so and they were every bit the bar steward to undo as I come to expect from a 25 year old "donor" engine

And don't even mention to me again that you take the keyway pin out of the cam and just rely on the bolt in the end of the cam to hold the sprocket in position

Why not - plenty of production engines rely on a friction drive. I was advised that it is a safe procedure on the PRV and so far a combined 10,000+ miles with no problems says that's correct. I have also disassembled one engine after 3000 or so and they were every bit the bar steward to undo as I come to expect from a 25 year old "donor" engine

No, new cars have a *tapered* male fitting on the end of the cam, and an exact copy tapered female fitting in the sprocket, and being a tapered fitting means that the more torque on the bolt, the clamping forces pull in and down in all directions, forcing the taper into a tigher grip. Also, being tapered, the contact area is the whole side faces of the 'cone', which is 10 times more than the thin ring of steel on the end of the PRV cam..

Secondly, all the modern cars are non chain, they are belt, and external to the engine, meaning the contact surfaces are bone dry. On the PRV, they are constantly drenched in oil!

Pete I would just get them to put a very conservative map on the adaptronic on the rollers then play with the ignition map on the road yourself, its really easy to play with the software and I've changed the ignition timing a fair bit since it was mapped. The problem is they map it for conditions it never sees on the road so when it goes on the road its suddenly got massively more cold air going in which causes it to det (its basically like running loads more boost all of a sudden) this maybe why yours went bang in the first place. I've been keeping an eye on the air fuel ratio and its the same at 1 bar on the road as it was at 1.2 bar on the rollers with the same amount of fuel going in! (my Lambda is still not reading so I'm stuck with the one fuel map at the moment). I reckon my car makes more power at 1 bar on the road than it makes at 1.2 bar on the rollers - thats how much hotter it gets. I'll get it up santa - pod in the spring in theory you need about 270-280 bhp in a GTA to make a 100mph terminal speed - and much kinder on the engine

Peter's car popped as when it was being mapped, the ignition retard against air temp was activated to retard the ignition 5 degrees above 50c. This should only be activated AFTER you have finalised the map. As Peters inlet temps on the rollers was above 50c, and the car was mapped for max power (say just before the edge of det) the operator did not realised that once on the road (and inlet temps below 50c) then the whole map would run 5 degrees more advance, plus the fact of just running cold air would make power naturally anyway. He made 380ft/lb on the rollers, so with an extra 5 degress and cool air that was way past the envelope.

Sounds a logical conclusion.

Can the adaptronic take a feed from the standard knock sensor to get over any variations & unexpected pinking?