AIr conditioner Refrigerant

[mettersl]

Hi Everyone,
My A610 air conditioning is present (you can even hear the compressor turn on too) but there is no cold air coming out of the system any more (I'm sure that there was when I bought it in March, but it was winter...) The air coming out of the vents is also a bit smelly- fumey (if there is such a word).
The system is (or should I say was) filled with R12 which I'm told is not available any more. Changing to R184 seems to involve some compressor seal changes, will reduce effectiveness and wear the compressor more quickly to boot. US sites list alternative refrigerants but I've not found anyone in the UK doing these.
Has anyone else had a refrigerant conversion carried out on an Alpine- if so what was your experience- what did you convert to and what was involved? If you have't had a conversion- any other tips to get the cool air flowing again? (other than moving back to Scotland!!)
Thanks
Lee

Hi,
My A610 was converted 22 months ago by ARR to new gas but it was not working when I purchased it this January and I am going to have it checked and hopefully re-charged locally next week as it is too hot a car to use without in this weather. There is no doubt that if you simply convert an old system from R12 to R134 the efficiency declines a great deal unless other component modifications are made. It might be worth asking ARR what they do when they convert them or ask David at ART who is very helpful on all Alpine matters.

Never had to do an R134 refill personally, but I know that the seals on a 'good, non leaking R12' system are still fine for a R134 system, as the oil in the R12 system is absorbed by the o-rings and protects against R134. Even so, its best to change them anyway, you will notice new seals on the the market are R12 and R134 complient, as they are normally advertised as oil saturated.

Your car may have leaked because Paul may have used R134, if it isnt a leaking seal... R134 is strange in that it can actually absorb itself through the rubber pipes in an R12 system, thus you can search for a leak and never find it...but changing the pipes on an Alpine would be a big task.

Thats encouraging! I think I will get it checked out to see if there is an obvious problem and if not do a full refill and see how it is. I dont fancy a pipe change! I dont think R12 is about anywhere now even as reclaimed gas unless you live in China where they still make it.

[mettersl]

Hi,

Now it is (nearly) getting warm again, the lack of puff from my aircon is back on the to do list.
Although I've bought a R134a converson kit from the states, I'm now looking at alternatives again.
Locally I'm being offered RS-24 by a couple of AC specialists (one of whom knows alpines), which other UK car sites seem to think is OK as a "drop in" replacement, simpler to do and with less problems than R134a conversions.
Geoff Arthur has had his A610 done in Isceon 49 with good results.
In Canada you can also get R12a (nothing like R12) which is MORE effective than R134a or R12, but as its flammable (like 134) seems to be controversial- and I cannot seem to find anyone in the UK that does it.

Anyone got any experience other than R134A conversions?

Thanks
Lee

[stephendell]

RS24 is a direct replacement.

See also here: http://www.renaultalpineownersclub.com/ ... light=rs24

[mettersl]

Thanks Stephen,
Had missed that in the previous postings, anyone tried it? Specialist says it leaks out more slowly than R134A or Isceon 49- is this true? or is everyone else hot and bothered in the summer?
Any experience from AUS?

Thanks
Lee

All cars now sold in Australia run R134a. I don't believe it leaks out any easier than R12, and runs at similar pressures, although it is not quite as efficient. Air con in new cars here, particularly the Aus made ones are very good. I expect most of your leak problems come from not using your air con regularly to keep the seals in good condition.

I would of thought you would have hardly had a day when you needed it. It does clear fog from a windsreen fast though.

[mettersl]

Thanks Alan,
Contrary to popular belief it does get hot here sometimes- over 30 mot years and it even hit 40 two years ago (very briefly)- of course that all before the thermal gain that an Alpine seems to manage.
You can always leave the windows open, but at speed it does get noisy (not that I spped of course).
I'm looking forward to finding out how good the A610 cooling can be.....of course the engine still has to run for it to work but that's another story.
Thanks
Lee

I had mine converted to 134 and it's OK .It cost around £120 and does as good a job as the previous .

I had my system overhauled and a new condenser fitted in February 2006 by Road Speed. I insisted they obtain Isceon 49 (R413a) as my research indicated it is much more efficient than R134a. It is a direct replacement for R12 and is totally non ozone depleting unlike R134a. The result is fantastic. The air is freezing when needed and the car is very comfortable to use in hot sunny weather like today. I found out about Iseon 49 from a friend who restores old Rolls Royce cars and he had received loads of complaints when converting systems to 134a. He changed to Isceon 49 and has no conversion cost and no complaints. I highly recommend it. If getting to Stroud to let Road Speed do the work is a problem then ask the importer for a more local outlet. They are SWM on 02380 653283.

[mettersl]

Hi A610GA,
I tried the Isceon 49 distributor- talk about unhelpful, as soon as I mentioned the word car all I got was "no we don't do cars, and none of our customers do either" - no discussion.
As Stroud is quite way away from here I guess I'll try the RS24 available locally and see what happens. There seem to be too many negative posts on other BBS about 134A conversions, cost, compressor life, leakage.
If it turns out the evaporator of condenser are adamaged, are new ones available? Do they come from anything else to reduce the costs?
Anyone want to buy a 134A conversion kit??

Lee

Hi Lee, SWM are being dull. All they need to tell you is the name of a more local air con place that they sell gas to. ARR subcontracted to a local specialist who uses Isceon 49. Your compressor should be an easy off the shelf item but the condenser is unique and unavailable. Mine was recored for Road Speed and is now fine as is the system. I dont think the car would be usable on a baking hot day like today without aircon. Do some more research through Yellow Pages etc until you find someone local to you who knows what they are doing or find a way of getting it to Stroud. Alternatively you could do the work yourself and take it somewhere for a refill. It is not as complex as people think. Good luck. Geoff

[mettersl]

Hi Everyone-
update-
My A610 is now filled with RS-24.
Initially the AC worked and then the receiver dryer blocked and the compressor stalled, but a new receiver drier (which the engineer had in his workshop already) cured all that. Now the car is too cold on moderate days without the heater on as well, air outlet temperatures when not moving are around 6 degrees with 36 degrees ambient, not so good when stationary through- about 11 degrees.
This was really pleasant all through the recent hot spell- shame I was away for most of it- a real change. Total cost locally- £150 for two fills and a new receiver dryer (and about 2 hours in the workshop). Not bad I thought.
One question from all this through- does anyone know why the fuel lines on a A610 have a heat exchanger with the A/C condenser pipe? Seems very odd.....any ideas?

Lee

One question from all this through- does anyone know why the fuel lines on a A610 have a heat exchanger with the A/C condenser pipe? Seems very odd.....any ideas?

Lee

There were instances where the GTA suffered fuel evaporation / vapour lock if the engine bay got very hot. Maybe they just did it on the A610 to eliminate any instances of this..