N2o

You should also remember that your engine is about 20 years old and youve never mentioned a rebuild (feel free to correct me on that one) so I dont think a real kick up the asp like nitrous is going to help on the longevity front!!!!!
I suspect you are merely mulling things over anyway, as what youre proposing (cams, ECU and nitrous) is going to set you back several thousand pounds in all......no harm in asking the questions!!!
As I proved on the Isle Of Man this week power isnt everything.....the Nissan Sunny GTI-R I was up against was a serious bit of kit with 400bhp and I beat him by a significant margin on the Jurby pursuit sprint. (got killed on the Lhergy Frissell hillclimb, but then it didnt really suit the GTA...or driver!! ) and the supercharged Viper was a 700bhp monster.....that couldnt be tamed!!!!! (slower than me on all 3 events!)

[stephendell]

Nitrous + boost + Renault clutch.........

= Slip, slip, slippery slip

Still worth a go though

Nitrous + boost + Renault clutch.........

= Slip, slip, slippery slip

Still worth a go though

Is this the begining of an "Alpine Antham"?

[stephendell]

22 ron ron ron 22 ron ron

Looks like Lee's already sorted the chorus

I suspect you are merely mulling things over anyway, as what youre proposing (cams, ECU and nitrous) is going to set you back several thousand pounds in all......no harm in asking the questions!!!

£7000 i presume your inc a rebuild in with that peter re; the ecu im confident the Dastek will do its job with everything else including controlling the Nitrous (If i go that route). the engine hasnt had a rebuild but as only about 45000 ish mls on from new, not a 20 year old with average milage, but as you say i am only mulling over things at the mo, Cams & Charge-cooler i think are deffo though

As I proved on the Isle Of Man this week power isnt everything.....the Nissan Sunny GTI-R I was up against was a serious bit of kit with 400bhp and I beat him by a significant margin on the Jurby pursuit sprint. (got killed on the Lhergy Frissell hillclimb, but then it didnt really suit the GTA...or driver!! ) and the supercharged Viper was a 700bhp monster.....that couldnt be tamed!!!!! (slower than me on all 3 events!)

Impressive stuff Peter Is the charge cooler doing its stuff then

I said SEVERAL thousand pounds....not 7!!!!!! (cams chargecooler NOS and ECU will easily add up to £3000 once fitted) The Dastek wont allow you to sort out the cams as it isnt controlling the ignition advance, you are gonna need a proper ECU with crank trigger wheel etc. The chargecooler is a very good bit of kit....it is stays cold to the touch under most conditions, although with the engine off it does soak heat up.

re; the ecu im confident the Dastek will do its job with everything else including controlling the Nitrous (If i go that route). :

Right, Im going to explain this in detail about the fueling system on ANY type of piggyback unit, Perfect Power, Dastek etc...

On the factory ecu, depending on what voltage is received from the MAP sensor on inlet manifold pressure, it tells the ecu what amount of fuel to put in.

The map sensor has a range of 0-5v, 0v being idle and 5v being 14.7psi of boost (maximum), 4v is about where a standard GTA runs at 10psi of boost, so to make it simple, imagine 4v is 200bhp (standard), 0v is 0bhp (idle) and say 5v is 230bhp (to simplify things..)

Now the piggyback units work by intercepting the signal from the map sensor before it reaches the factory ecu, so for instance, if you were running 10psi (4v map), the piggy back could tell the ecu that the engine is running 4.5v map and thus put extra fuel in (the same amount of fuel required for say 12psi...)

BUT, and this is the problem..., if you are running 14.7psi, and the car needs more fuel, then there is nothing the piggy back can do. It can't make the ecu see '6v' for instance, as it doesnt exist, the ecu only sees 0-5v..., thus max it can do is 5v, which is what it currently is at already. On top of that, the factory ecu cuts out at 14.7psi (ecu seeing 5v, for safety), so all these piggy back units actually have to modify the map signal the other way, ie, when the car is at 14.7psi of boost, the piggyback is fooling the ecu into thinking its running say 13psi, so it won't cutout, but now we have the fueling of a 13psi setting, when we are running much more boost than this and thus lean..

Steve, this is why the RR firm you used left your car at 13psi. They probably found they could leave it at that boost, and map the Dastek a little rich, as there was still a little more voltage range on the map sensor left to richen it up (they could run it at nearly 5v). They probably found that 13psi with 15psi's worth of fuel was spot on on your car..

The only way you can get extra fuel on a turbo setup on a piggyback system( and it all says this on the specs) is to use their extra injector drivers that they have built in, but then the issues of placement, getting good position/atomisation etc are a problem..

The other way is to fit much larger injectors, but that involves completely mapping the piggyback unit from afresh, as the whole map is now overrich at every point, but then you have a problem at the other end of the scale.

Getting back to the voltage, imagine your car is at idle or very low load cruising, say 0 - 0.5v on the map sensor, but your larger injectors are overfueling. Now the piggy back could be used to modifiy the signal, so the original ecu sees a lower voltage to lean it out.....but if the sensor is nearly at 0, how can you lower the voltage any more?

You can't, so you end up running rich low down, fouling plugs, poor mpg, more lag and soggy response etc...

Then the other problem, like Ive mentioned before, is the air temp correction on a GTA. Now we all know that on a RR, the inlet air temps are high, and this causes the original ecu to richen up the mixture, and retard the ignition. So when you are mapping the piggyback, you are compensating for this and setting the fuel and ignition up correctly as you want it on the RR...

But then you go out on the road, where there is cooler air, the the fueling isnt richened or ignition retarded by the original ecu, and now your perfect fuel mixture is actually leaner than it was on the RR, and the ignition is now more advanced...

..your thoughts..?

The Dastek wont allow you to sort out the cams as it isnt controlling the ignition advance, you are gonna need a proper ECU with crank trigger wheel etc..

Im sure the Dastek will I could fill a couple of pages of replys from Dastek on here answering the negative comments (Im not going to though ), but its a old argument and i am not in the sales dept working for Dastek

So its maybe
Cams £
Charge cooler£
Nos??
Labour£

re; the ecu im confident the Dastek will do its job with everything else including controlling the Nitrous (If i go that route). :

Right, Im going to explain this in detail about the fueling system on ANY type of piggyback unit, Perfect Power, Dastek etc...

On the factory ecu, depending on what voltage is received from the MAP sensor on inlet manifold pressure, it tells the ecu what amount of fuel to put in.

The map sensor has a range of 0-5v, 0v being idle and 5v being 14.7psi of boost (maximum), 4v is about where a standard GTA runs at 10psi of boost, so to make it simple, imagine 4v is 200bhp (standard), 0v is 0bhp (idle) and say 5v is 230bhp (to simplify things..)

Now the piggyback units work by intercepting the signal from the map sensor before it reaches the factory ecu, so for instance, if you were running 10psi (4v map), the piggy back could tell the ecu that the engine is running 4.5v map and thus put extra fuel in (the same amount of fuel required for say 12psi...)

BUT, and this is the problem..., if you are running 14.7psi, and the car needs more fuel, then there is nothing the piggy back can do. It can't make the ecu see '6v' for instance, as it doesnt exist, the ecu only sees 0-5v..., thus max it can do is 5v, which is what it currently is at already. On top of that, the factory ecu cuts out at 14.7psi (ecu seeing 5v, for safety), so all these piggy back units actually have to modify the map signal the other way, ie, when the car is at 14.7psi of boost, the piggyback is fooling the ecu into thinking its running say 13psi, so it won't cutout, but now we have the fueling of a 13psi setting, when we are running much more boost than this and thus lean..

Steve, this is why the RR firm you used left your car at 13psi. They probably found they could leave it at that boost, and map the Dastek a little rich, as there was still a little more voltage range on the map sensor left to richen it up (they could run it at nearly 5v). They probably found that 13psi with 15psi's worth of fuel was spot on on your car..

The only way you can get extra fuel on a turbo setup on a piggyback system( and it all says this on the specs) is to use their extra injector drivers that they have built in, but then the issues of placement, getting good position/atomisation etc are a problem..

The other way is to fit much larger injectors, but that involves completely mapping the piggyback unit from afresh, as the whole map is now overrich at every point, but then you have a problem at the other end of the scale.

Getting back to the voltage, imagine your car is at idle or very low load cruising, say 0 - 0.5v on the map sensor, but your larger injectors are overfueling. Now the piggy back could be used to modifiy the signal, so the original ecu sees a lower voltage to lean it out.....but if the sensor is nearly at 0, how can you lower the voltage any more?

You can't, so you end up running rich low down, fouling plugs, poor mpg, more lag and soggy response etc...

Then the other problem, like Ive mentioned before, is the air temp correction on a GTA. Now we all know that on a RR, the inlet air temps are high, and this causes the original ecu to richen up the mixture, and retard the ignition. So when you are mapping the piggyback, you are compensating for this and setting the fuel and ignition up correctly as you want it on the RR...

But then you go out on the road, where there is cooler air, the the fueling isnt richened or ignition retarded by the original ecu, and now your perfect fuel mixture is actually leaner than it was on the RR, and the ignition is now more advanced...

..your thoughts..?

They didnt leave it at 13 psi, thats the rolling road print out i posted, on the boost controller i have 3 settings standard, 13psi, and just over 1 bar on the third setting

The Dastek wont allow you to sort out the cams as it isnt controlling the ignition advance,

It will Pete, but only by a maximum of 5.45 degrees on the Renault flywheel, which you can acheive more than this my moving the flywheel TDC sensor on the standard setup.

Send Davids post to them then post the answer! Having seen all the posts about this subject I suspect you are alone in thinking your Dastek is doing the job of a programmable ECU. How is it mapping the ignition for starters????

Send Davids post to them then post the answer! Having seen all the posts about this subject I suspect you are alone in thinking your Dastek is doing the job of a programmable ECU. How is it mapping the ignition for starters????

Already done that, but like i said Peter i dont work for Dastek and im not going to tread on anyones toes

Dastek have been looking in on the forum as well so im sure they will provide any answers for you

Don't think were ganging up on you Steve, were not, end of the day you want the best results, we can all see that.

Do you remember your back from Noble thread, the RR guy said it made no more power at 16psi as it did at 13psi, this is because of this reason.

It won't be down to chargetemps, 3psi doesnt make that much difference..

Send Davids post to them then post the answer! Having seen all the posts about this subject I suspect you are alone in thinking your Dastek is doing the job of a programmable ECU. How is it mapping the ignition for starters????

No he's not
I BELIEVE