E10 Fuel

Forgive me if this subject has been raised already (but I cant find anything on the forum).

With the impending change to E10 fuel, what effect will this have on our cars?

I understand that the increased ethanol (going up to 10%) can cause issues to fuel lines.

Are there replacement fuel hose kits available that are E10 compatible?

I believe some fuel stations will still continue to serve E5 , but these are bound to be few and far between.

Thoughts anyone?

[mettersl]

E10 is a challenge as the increased ethanol levels cause issues with plastics and rubbers in contact with fuel.
If your car is a Turbo, then John Ashely/Rats have kits for the engine bay (probably a good idea to change the high pressure pipes anyway at this age), along with any O rings sealing the injectors under the fuel rails too.
However there are reports of probelms with the petrol tank cracking on the French forum (E10 has been around there for at least 4 years) and there are other pipes at the front of the car that could be impacted too.
Premium 98 and 99 fuels (eg Tesco Momentum, Sainsburys, other ones are available too I'm sure) will remain E5 and I will be using that on my A610. Around here most garages have their equivalent but expect to pay 5-10p a litre more for them.

I have had an outboard motor that wasn't being used completely dissolve one of its fuel pipes in E5, so keep an eye on the fuel system anyway if you aren't using it regularly. It seems low usage can make the effects worse (but I have no idea why).

[johnb]

I changed the fuel hoses on my cars to R9 grade after reading information on the web about its suitability for use with ethanol content fuel.

In addition, to avoid the issue altogether, I have been using fuel with zero ethanol content. This may not be available for ever of course but, at least, eliminates the problem for the moment. Within a mile of where I live is an Esso petrol station and I use their Esso Synergy Supreme 99 fuel which is ethanol free. There is a proviso in that it is not sold in all parts of the country as detailed in the attached.

https://www.esso.co.uk/en-gb/fuels/petrol

[johnb]

I was writing my reply whilst Lee was writing his.

For my cars, changing the fuel hoses wasn't a big issue as they both are on carburettors and there are less items that could be affected. As Lee mentions, a turbo car could be more problematic.

I haven't looked but the fuels Lee mentions might be ethanol free even though marked E5. If you read the Esso fuels link I posted you'll see that they have to mark that fuel E5 even though it doesn't contain any ethanol.

Yes as John said, the Esso super is probably the best option as it'll be 'mostly' zero ethanol.

Otherwise stick to the other high octane supers as again they'll all be at the 5% mark and it shouldn't cause as many issues.

I upgraded to R9 from Volks Bolts as I don't want to take any chances and I was sometimes having to tighten the hose clamps for no discernible reason to stop leaks when cold - http://www.volksbolts.com/faq/fuelhose.htm
The R9 hose seems to have fully fixed that.

[mettersl]

Hi Darren, Did you manage to find a replacement for the tank to pipe size changing hoses at the front? They are low pressure and nothing hot around, so I guess a leak is a bad as it would get.
John, good tip on zero ethanol fuel...
Lee

No I didn't get round to it Lee.

As you rightly say, low pressure and no heat so I think under far less 'stress' than in the engine bay, with less drastic ramifications. I can't remember what the dimensions are now but it flairs at one end so only solution I think would be two pieces with a joiner?

[johnb]

Hi Darren, Did you manage to find a replacement for the tank to pipe size changing hoses at the front? They are low pressure and nothing hot around, so I guess a leak is a bad as it would get.
John, good tip on zero ethanol fuel...
Lee

I can't remember how I found out about the zero ethanol Esso Supreme. It was possibly a newspaper or motoring press article. It could have been in an article by the FBHVC. Not something that you'd necessarily hear about otherwise. I'm fortunate in that the Esso station is close to where I live and on a road I use frequently.

Thanks to you all for your prompt replies.
I never thought to check Esso, and I didnt realise premium unleaded is either ethanol free or 5% max.

I have an Esso station very close by, so I'll start filling up there instead.

Changing the hoses / fuel lines is yet another job to add to my list.

Hi all,
This is an article I drafted...some time ago now for the CAR magazine 'Le Journal' so some of this may be superseded but may be of use as there are a few links in it that may be worth following up...I certainly will now, Barry.

Increasing the Percentage of Bioethanol in Vehicle Fuels from 5% to 10% and it's implications for Older Vehicles.

I have collected the following information from a number of sources including web sites and various individuals comments on this matter and felt that it would be useful to bring this to members attention

There has been a lot of discussion regarding increasing the amount of Bioethanol, also just called Ethanol in vehicle fuels and the possible consequences of this for older vehicles.
The U.K. Government has been consulting on replacing the amount of Ethanol that is currently added to vehicle fuels from 2020 onwards. Currently added is 5% Ethanol fuel shown on the petrol pump nozzle as E5 and the proposal is to increase this to 10% Ethanol which will be shown on the petrol pump nozzle as E10. This is apparently in part about reducing CO2 emissions on existing vehicles.

Ethanol is an alcohol based fuel produced from the fermentation of a range of plants, including sugarcane and grains, along with their by-products.
Unlike regular unleaded petrol, ethanol fuel is said to be partially atmospherically carbon-neutral. This is because as the plants that will become biofuel grow, they reportedly absorb more carbon dioxide than what will be released into the air during fuel production and combustion. This partially offsets the greenhouse gas emissions produced by its production and use … but by just how much is still an active topic of debate!
There does appears to be a lot of controversy about Ethanol additives: one report stated that Ethanol is very un-green/costly to produce and we will get less miles to the gallon, other comments include carburettors on older vehicles will get totally gunked up internally, also for many classic cars that very often do limited mileage the Ethanol absorbs water in the fuel tank, so if a car is laid up then people may have to think about draining their fuel tanks.
Ethanol has a lower heating value, but its "octane" rating is much higher. Tesco 99 ron petrol is achieved through the use of Ethanol.
There is a good possibility that E5 will remain available from the larger large volume Petrol Stations for a period (but maybe only until 2021/22) as many 2000 onwards cars may be impacted by this change.

The Federation of Historic Vehicle Clubs ( FHVC) web site has an extensive report on this matter that is well worth a thorough read. This can be accessed at:
https://www.fbhvc.co.uk/news/article/e1 ... -statement

In addition the Department of Transport has commissioned research organisation Qinetiq to prepare a report that has drawn information together from many sources. This can be accessed at:
https://www.historicvehicle.org/wp-cont ... eport1.pdf

Further reading and information on the proposals to increase Ethanol to 10% and it's implications can be found at the following:

What Car - E10 Biofuel, what it is and how it could affect you.
https://www.whatcar.com/advice/owning/e ... you/n18069

Classics World Magazine - E10 Petrol set for introduction.
https://classicsworld.co.uk/news/e10-pe ... roduction/
https://classicsworld.co.uk/news/launch ... -mps-urge/
https://classicsworld.co.uk/news/potent ... e-in-2020/

RAC, What is E10 fuel and how it will affect you.
https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/emis ... ffect-you/

Finally, GOV.UK following their consultations on these proposals.
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... tions-1999

I have been advised that when or if this goes through it will most likely affect flexible fuel lines which may deteriorate. It may mean that the flexible pipes in an older car may need renewal or at least watching. Fuel filters, fuel pressure regulators and any non metal parts in contact with the fuel could be affected too. It is also said to " loosen deposits and "clean" the fuel system so this may well stir up deposits in older cars so fuel filers may need changing more regularly.

Millers Oils are now producing a fuel additive that is 'said' to reduce some of the problems that will be encountered with E10 fuels. This is called Millers EPS £7.00 for a 250 ml bottle which treats 50 litres, just under 11 gallons of fuel. More details of this can be found at:
https://www.millersoils.co.uk/products/eps/

Currently both BP Ultimate Unleaded and BP Regular Unleaded contain only 5% Ethanol so are still fine to use
Esso Super Unleaded (Synergy Supreme + Unleaded 97) is still 5% Ethanol (except in Devon, Cornwall, the Teesside area and Scotland). Esso would therefore advise anyone who has concerns about the presence of Ethanol in petrol to use Synergy Supreme + providing they do not fill up in Devon or Cornwall, the Teesside area or Scotland.

This is a matter is one that will certainly not go away and dependent upon what vehicles members own I would suggest that a watching brief is kept on these proposals as I'm sure more research will be carried out on the implications of E10 and its affects in older vehicles.

Barry Jayes.

Thanks Barry for the comprehensive update.

[johnb]

Barry mentions Millers Oils EPS additive in his details above. Millers have another additive that I've been using for several years, Millers VSPe Power Plus. I starting using this mainly as a 'just in case' lead replacement as endorsed by the FBHVC. I now note that it also claims to combat the adverse effects of ethanol, upto E10, in fuel.

https://www.millersoils.co.uk/products/ ... ulti-shot/

The last time I bought some was in 2016 when the price from Opie Oils was £19.50 including VAT for 500ml. Now they're asking £38.50, shopping round it can be found lower.