Different day ,different car .................same shit !!!!

.... that sums it up pretty well I think.....



(not that I know anything)

Yes, the heads are not a restriction at all, the manifolds are, then the cams..

This proven by looking at the 21T engine. Each combustion chamber on the 21 is a nigh on copy of the Z7U. They both run the exact same inlet and exhaust valves, and the in and ex ports are the same diameter (tho the V6 are actually shorter) and same shaped dished design. This is pretty well expected as they are both Douvrin designed engines.

If anything the V6 chamber also has a benefit over the 21 chamber as its only having to shift 416cc of capacity per stroke (2500cc/6) instead of 500cc with the 2000cc 4 cylinder engine...

Now we know the standard 21 head can flow way over 300bhp, and that's only with 4 cylinders, 8v. The V6 has 6 cylinders, thus more valves and thus can flow more in total. So the heads are definitely not a restriction, though how far the cams can lift is.

As with everything, it makes no difference if you open up your ports on a head, if the manifolds you are bolting back on are the original smaller diameter, then the next mod is the cams, use bog standard cheap as chips 25/Espace V6 ones.

Interesting point of fact, I have a Z7U engine I'm rebuilding for a fellow forum member, bi-turbo 310 and it makes over 320whp and that is using std fitment headers with no modification, turbo flanged up on the end of each. I'm on business travel, but I can post up the dyno plot.

Interesting point of fact, I have a Z7U engine I'm rebuilding for a fellow forum member, bi-turbo 310 and it makes over 320whp and that is using std fitment headers with no modification, turbo flanged up on the end of each. I'm on business travel, but I can post up the dyno plot.

There you go. Proves as I mentioned the single turbo setup sucks, or can be vastly inproved apon, abeit with drawbacks, though even using the Z7U manifolds with a flange on each is still a restriction as the total output area is smaller than the area of the turbo flange you are mounting to it.

Just wondering what you need for a twin turbo set up?! New what? Done how? Diffference being? Cost?

Just wondering what you need for a twin turbo set up?! New what? Done how? Diffference being? Cost?

two suitable turbo's custom manifolding, possibley two dump valves depending on where the dump valves are situated, engine management, larger injectors suitable for the power to be developed, trigger wheel for ecu, uprated fuel pump/s and regulators, boost hosing/pipe work, means of cooling charge; twin intercoolers or charge ccolers. I supose depending on plumbing a great big one of either, possibly an exhaust or modified or manifolding to suit exhaust.

Set up of standalone ......the list the cost ......it just keeps rising .

You need deep pockets full of dosh I suppose it could be done on a budget if you do a lot of the work yourself. use older design turbo's and it may be possible to adapt some normally aspirated manifolds; but, the manifolds secondhand are like hens teeth and cost a fortune new


si21..... I will do it one day .....I can dream cant I

You paint such a rosey picture. hahah.
Tony Smith or Law was selling a set of turbos and manifolds last year for not to much, plus intakes.
I wonder who bought them.
And what monster they are about to release.

MAV

You called! Yes i bought Tony's setup the other year but delayed getting fitted due to the arrival of my daughter. I've gone the standalone route using Emerald ECU, larger injectors, uprated fuel pump, 3bar map sensor, large chargecooler, trigger wheel one of Clee's sensor brackets. I'm only using one dump valve fitted just before the chargecooler, custom straight through exhaust (v.loud) will have to quiten it somehow. I'm using the standard single plenum. The turbos are T2's of Fiesta RS Turbo origin i believe so the max boost they will deliver is 16psi/ 1.1 bar i'm aiming to run 7.5psi/0.5bar boost per turbo and increasing upto 12psi/0.75bar per turbo later. Everything in place just head scratching at the moment on oil fed supply to the turbos if any one has advice they can offer on this i'd be grateful, my intention was to use original oil feed but running 2 lines from the block instead of 1 just concerened if there willl be enough oil getting to the turbos? I have some pics knocking about of the conversion when i've unpacked the camera i'll get them hosted.

There is a restrictor in the oil feed to turbo so yes I'd think carefully .Too much pressure is worse than less for the turbo bearings .I'd feed the turbos independently using the std feed and pressure sender/warning light takeoff points on the other side of the block .They are both fed in a similar way so should have similar pressure ,fit a reducer to the new line .
Fit an oil cooler matrix via a take off plate and plumb a pressure sender into the pipes to that .I think you may need a tad more oil cooling than the OE stuff can provide anyway .

Thanks Clee, i'll scrape my knuckles on that in the morning n see how it looks.

DeLorean twin turbos run a tee piece off the regular oil feed. They run twin IHI RHB52's without an external restrictor.

Well the flow of oil out of the single pipe is emense(excuse spelling) and will empty the oil in less time than it takes to move car out of a garage.
I know this form experience
My son who was 4 at the time said afterwards, now Daddy next time you want to do any work on the car best let me check it first MUMMY is not going to be happy with all that oil everywhere.
hahah
So with no scientific data I would assume there is enough to run two turbos. POSSIBLY.

So changing the manifolds/collectors is the cheaper way to liberate a little more power? Does anyone do these off the shelf? Cost?

None for the turbo off the shelf .You need to make sure it will actually improve things so it's a bit of a gamble ......well a lot of a gamble really if it's not done correctly and even then may not give you that much more ooomfff .
Bank on spending about a grand for the gamble .......
GT5 had some made but with a load of other mods as well so no way of gauging how much just the headers gave ..