What in the name of ................gta Turbo ?

The 250 bhp barrier is still there with the 21 lump as much as it is with the PRV . Why go to all the hassle of making an engine of similar tech and power fit the GTA ???

The lads in 21 TOC have started to spend a few grand on their engines (Europa Cup Spec) going to Belgium having the standard ECU's re-mapped and driving way with around 300bhp

250 - 260bhp just quoted was a DIY home port job and no cam at all .....so change the bumpy stick and a mild cam on a turbo car will give probably 15 - 20 bhp a wilder cam with the correct map to make it run and tractable through the range. I think its more than feasable to see the 300bhp with less weight aiding performance, handling and breaking for me I dont see what the argument against putting it into a GTA, if somebody has done or willing to do the work it can only be of benifit all round. How much power will you need at that end of the power range to make up for the performance gained by loss of weight? I dont know the answer may be some body cleverererer than me can prove me right or wrong

Is there an little program/formula that can plot performance against power/weight?

Besides Renaults done it and so Has Dave Sibley so now they have spent the time and effort we can all see how its done = not so much effort and time

si21

I thought the 21 lump was 175 out the box ?
So you is telling me that with a bit of emery you can get 75 bhp

I thought the 21 lump was 175 out the box ?
So you is telling me that with a bit of emery you can get 75 bhp

if you have a standard set up running no extra boost.

That engine was running at least 20 - 22 psi or about 1.5 bar it had a T34 Hybrid turbo with a Cossie exhaust housing and 3" down pipe bigger injectors uprated fuel pump and regulator flowed head and a huge intercooler, in fact I think it was a Europa Cup car intercooler. The car was built on a budget running standard bottom end not even balanced etc, I have never heard of a crank breaking.

Standard they 175bhp and 199lb of torque, and that pattern generally stays from the power torque graphs I have seen with the standard cam. not sure about modified. How much torque does a GTA turbo make standard?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QAi014NeEA

Watch it all the way through there is a close up of the graph at some point.

So he's done much more work and fitted more stuff and runs silly boost rather than just a bit of porting .....it's just as much effort as the PRV .

So he's done much more work and fitted more stuff and runs silly boost rather than just a bit of porting .....it's just as much effort as the PRV .

had just porting done the other enine had the works and produced 325bhp

Show me a 2.5 PRV thats made more? Has anybody done it yet?

J7R Proven more than once a mate has the same power and spec engine.

its lighter more power proven thus far .....why not fit it.

Silly boost not really thats what Renault ran its only silly if it blows up Not if its designed to handle it machined liners & forged pistons and correct fueling to keep it from detonating.

si21

Forget the PRV comparison Si .
I still say if you want to transplant the lump then the 21 engine is not worth the hassle .The only + is that it mates quite naturally to the UN1 and is a shade lighter .There are plenty of other better options that have far more power and potential .
You would have just the same issues fitting any suitable engine in the GTA as you will have with the 21 engine .

It's a bit of a pointless bun fight this cos both the engines don't stand comparison to other engines of the time. Ford's pinto engines from the 70's with a cossie head and a turbo would make 315 bhp with some bigger injectors and a remap! Toyota 3 JZE 250bhp out the box, Nissan GTiR engine 280 bhp with a hybrid and a remap, theres loads more. Renault used a saloon car engine not built to breathe but to produce a nice driveable road car so everything has to be changed to make it into a race engine. You can make any engine produce power if you throw enough money at it but I don't see the point in spending 10k on an engine for a car worth £1500. Oh and 21 T's with big turbos on are horifically laggy to drive.

It's only the management side of my conversion thats ended up costing me silly money the engine itself - brand new remember with all brand new ancillaries and very trick turbo only stands me in about 5k fitted. And I sold the engine out of my car for £1200 and the gearbox that came with the engine for £500. I could probably get 350bhp if I went down the twin turbo route but I think the car is fast enough as it is and the gearbox won't last 5 minutes running much over 300 bhp. More power doesn't always make a car much quicker or better to drive

[stephendell]

There are plenty of other better options that have far more power and potential

Nothing else to keep it 'factory' though.

Keeping it Renault powered also reduces the list considerably:

Clio V6 (PSA ES9)
350Z (Nissan) V6s
Clio/Spider F7R
Clio/Megane F4R

gearbox won't last 5 minutes running much over 300 bhp

That's true!

Are you going to revise the GTA execution tag Tony ?

I don't buy the Factory argument .It is no longer a GTA as soon as you bin the Z7U
24 valve ,610 ,bi saf ,21............... It's all kitcar as far as I'm concerned

[stephendell]

I don't buy the Factory argument. It is no longer a GTA as soon as you bin the Z7U

Try telling the guy with the yellow GTA!

Renault Heritage will still accept a car as long as it's Renault powered so I think that's important. That also goes for their Formula one cars and the oddballs like the Lotus Europa too.

As soon as it's not Renault powered it's not really a Renault anymore and I think that's when it becomes a kit car. Like a Clio with the Audi TT engine or a 5 with a Rover V8. That holds no real interest for me. Might as well just buy a different car.

As long as it's Renault parts bin that's OK by me.

After all that's what an Alpine is by definition, a Renault powered special.

gearbox won't last 5 minutes running much over 300 bhp

By coincidence, I was talking to Kevin Jones earlier today on that very subject, having undertaken a 3 litre turbo in a DeLorean (brand new crate engine from Renault).

He has now sold over 150 of his uprated UN1 gearsets, almost all to Esprit V8 owners, and recently, in large numbers to Lotus themselves to rebuild V8 boxes.

With the torque the 3 litre is capable of, "it's not a case of if, but when" the box breaks

5th is the weakest point, the input shaft coupler and mainshaft just south of the coupler come next.

Don't put in 5th then
I know I can't ever get there on track

[BIG_MVS]

Simon, ahem http://www.renault21turbo.com/forum/ your lost again mate!