The good old days ?

by **clee** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:13 am

I'm running std manifolds but not in the right order :lol:

by **David Gentleman** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:13 am

clee wrote:I'm running std manifolds but not in the right order

Welcome to 300bhp max, a lighter wallet and 4 years ago. :lol:

by **clee** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:33 am

Flow bench says different but hey that's only a real world calibrated test ...not D G ospel

by **David Gentleman** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:36 am

clee wrote:Flow bench says different but hey that's only a real world calibrated test ...not D G ospel

Oh dear.

I hope you flow benched your head with the manifolds and turbo, and exhaust connected......

Because what good is a head that could flow 5000cfm per second if its connected to something that can only flow 5...

Head flow bench figures are meaningless, apart from seeing a gain on the head alone.. We don't drive cars with no inlet manifolds or exhausts connected to it...

by **clee** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:39 am

Manifolds ,yes and the rest is all tailored to suit .

by **David Gentleman** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:53 am

clee wrote:Manifolds ,yes and the rest is all tailored to suit .

Well having manifolds connected is in no way similar to the pre-turbo positive backpressure you have on a turbocharged car on boost, and obviously the more boost you run, the higher the backpressure, and the less your head/engine flows...but lets see how you go....

by **clee** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:57 am

Thanks , your patronising means a lot .....
You must show us all some of your work in this field :roll:

by **David Gentleman** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:58 am

clee wrote:Thanks , your patronising means a lot .....
You must show us all some of your work in this field

Ask Steven Hawkins know about space flight and the universe, he can't even walk to the toilet....

by **clee** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:59 am

ohh and for your humility as well :roll:

by **si21** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:01 pm

Ultimate power graph for 3 ltr with standard manifolds

= 300bhp at 1000rpm - 300bhp at 7000rpm :lol:

On a lighter note

Rip the 80's Artex ceiling down :wink:

...see what you've started now Smiffy :lol:

Adding fuel to the fire what can I expect to get out of a 3ltr Safrane/Laguna spec lump with 3 branch manifolds and free flow system normally apirated but with fuel injection? No engine mods ...well except one ....No oil leaks :lol:

PMSL

si21

PS commas ommited to "wee wee" the grammah brigade off :lol:

by **clee** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:18 pm

Adding fuel to the fire what can I expect to get out of a 3ltr Safrane/Laguna spec lump with 3 branch manifolds and free flow system normally apirated but with fuel injection? No engine mods ...well except one ....No oil leaks Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing PMSL

do it and find out ..or wait till the one I built with cams is fitted in a P4 replica with throttle bodies :twisted:

Should be this side of Christmas .

by **David Gentleman** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 1:51 pm

si21 wrote:Ultimate power graph for 3 ltr with standard manifolds

= 300bhp at 1000rpm - 300bhp at 7000rpm

On a lighter note Rip the 80's Artex ceiling down

...see what you've started now Smiffy

Adding fuel to the fire what can I expect to get out of a 3ltr Safrane/Laguna spec lump with 3 branch manifolds and free flow system normally apirated but with fuel injection? No engine mods ...well except one ....No oil leaks PMSL

si21

PS commas ommited to pistol the grammah brigade off

Probably about 190 bhp, if you can't modify the ECU (Henk can do that though) As for the throttle bodied one, with a set of say 290-300 deg cams, about 230-240bhp.

by **Tony Smith** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:47 pm

The manifolds are definitely the issue, i thought we all new that. My car makes about 220bhp @ wheels 0.8 bar, low 240's @ wheels at 1 bar - but at a lower power peak, and probably not much more after a bar (on a T38) but I assume the torque still goes up somewhat. Believe me this is plenty quick enough - equates to about 250 bhp per ton and 300 ft/lbs per ton (flywheel) - and to be honest is a good ceiling to keep to for a road car as transmission all becomes marginal at anything higher.

by **jon_viola** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:32 pm

As we all know I know nothing about these things but a question for you both:

Are there other manifolds that exist from other PRV applications with better flow?

Probably not :oops:

but worth an ask :lol:

by **si21** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:46 pm

clee wrote:Let's be generous then and compare PG with TS .

200 to 260 30% increase
250 to 300 15%

Both had the same degree of mods/improvements ,even running Adapt .So even given the known problems the ' better ' engine performs worst by some margin .
I'm confused but no change there .We will just go round in circles again on this one until JIL lump is finished .But then it is now 3l with 2.5 heads ,bigger valves ,shed loads of porting work and cams so not really a good argument there to be had

Anyway ...you not got a proper job to go to ? What you been up to then
.Selling the Merc and coming back to the fold ?

Because the 3ltr hits the testriction of the manifolds :lol: