3.0 Litre Update

Your RR or mine ? I remember a time when these things didn't matter to some Beware the darkside Opgwan ..........................innit you must yessssssssssss ..................................

Same one its been to twice before....I believe its accurate....although prehaps I should claim it reads under as a cunning ploy!!!!

I fink mine is redin bout undred off tru

Is that 285bhp brick wall surpassable?

Cant possibly work! Machine your flywheel....much better

Until someone can adequately explain -why- those figures work, I'll stick to the tiny amount of modification it takes to make a standard flywheel into a standard 66/3 pattern.

I suspect that actually it doesn't trigger correctly, but the config in the map gets around it. The 108 degree figure used in the setup makes NO SENSE and I think it was found by trial and error and a timing light. I reckon it works because the ECU resets every period, but it's measurement of crank angle between each reset will be increasingly incorrect for the duration of each period.

The injection being batch fired won't be affected but the ignition timing will offset partially on each period IMO.

II'm not expecting a straight answer here but if you can, by all means explain this: The angle BTDC of the first tooth after reset is 60 degrees. A very sensible and obvious figure that's MEASURABLE ON A BENCH. Put that setting into the ECU running off a modified flywheel and it works perfectly, yet your setup requires a TOTALLY SENSELESS figure of 108 degrees.

You're configuring the ECU to reset on two missing teeth - it doesn't have two missing teeth, it has one missing tooth and two joined up. I can't see how the ECU can trigger CORRECTLY on this, I can only see that it's possible to fudge it to make it work, but your figures in the ignition map will in some part be off from what they really are. (and referring to my original post, I've verified they're correct at idle only)

I havent got a clue! You need to speak to Jonathon, he's the clever one...he fully understands the tooth pattern and said it wasnt a problem. I think the fact that it works speaks volumes! He didnt even take off the crank sensor to do any bench checking etc....he set it all up on the lap top.

Cant possibly work! Machine your flywheel....much better

Until someone can adequately explain -why- those figures work, I'll stick to the tiny amount of modification it takes to make a standard flywheel into a standard 66/3 pattern.

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Which is what?? Will it affect its running on std managment ?
If not I might as well do it as its out and at a toolmakers unit

I think Martin's probably right with the fact the ECU is correcting the odd firing sequence off the flywheel but if it works its better than having to take the engine out to sort. On the other hand if the engine and box are already out then possibly having the flywheel machined so that the mapping is done with true tdc known at all times may have its advantages from a setting up point of view.
After all a boost controller works by fooling the wastegate into not opening by leaking boost pressure out of the circuit. The wastegate thinks it still sees its preset opening pressure but really the turbo is working harder and producing more boost. I think what I'm trying to say (all though I'm not actually sure what I'm rambling about myself now!! ) is that mechanical parts have no intelligence so the electronics that control them are the key.

quote]

Which is what?? Will it affect its running on std managment ?
If not I might as well do it as its out and at a toolmakers unit [/quote]


Martin has the double tooth machined out so the tdc sensor can see the gap simple as that

If you machine the flywheel you will not be able to use the standard ecu again at any time...

Its really very simple how the trigger works..

The flywheel is 66 teeth in total, and has 3 identical sequences in a row, of in theory '22' teeth to make a sequence, but in reality two of the teeth have the space between them filled in, and two are 'missing', but they are still counted.. like this...



Now, if the flywheel would have 66 teeth, that makes each position of the teeth 5.45 degrees apart (360/66)

Now the settings in the ecu are told to look for 20 teeth, and then a missing gap of a tooth and a gap, which you can see on the diagram above. The reason for telling the ecu to look at a 108(therabouts) degree total sequence, it because that is what the 20 teeth x 5.45 degrees look for. It does not matter that the last teeth are filled in, its trigger still happens at the correct angle. If you machined the gap or not, it would make no difference, I have told the ecu that every tooth is 5.45 degrees apart..

So basically, all you are telling the ecu to do is to look for this sequence, pump fuel, ignite it, and repeat the sequence. This setup will only work on a distributor/batched injection vehicle such as the GTA, as the ecu has no reference if it has to fire at TDC or BDC, as its a continuous sequence anyway and makes no difference...

All Renault flywheels have this system, and there is in fact no reason why a 4 cylinder Clio ecu wouldnt work on a GTA. The reason is, on the Clio, they have the same 22 teeth sequence, but only twice on the flywheel, so it does the fuel/spark every sequence. All the Renault ecus just look for 22 teeth and repeat, so if you stuck it on a GTA in theory it would do the same, just times 3 per revolution. If Renault made an 8 cylinder, you can bet it would have 88 teeth on the flywheel, and the same ecu architechture.

I know the Adaptronic works on a R5 now, as I had one running last week using the same settings (but with the angles degrees changes per tooth as there is only 44 teeth on the flywheel)

To late I've just machined them off





So the big tooth is to make it up to 20
That diagram shows 19 teeth btw
20 x 5.45454545454 is not 108 btw

To late I've just machined them off





So the big tooth is to make it up to 20
20 x 5.45454545454 is not 108 btw

You can't put 5.454545 into the ecu. , doh, but your right, I do mean 109, but all it means is you adjust your map by 1 degree...

So the big tooth is to make it up to 20
That diagram shows 19 teeth btw
:

No it doesn't, the big tooth is two teeth, there are 20 teeth and two missing. I can' then call the missing teeth no teeth, cos they don't exist It all still has to be counted...

So the big tooth is to make it up to 20
That diagram shows 19 teeth btw
:

No it doesn't, the big tooth is two teeth, there are 20 teeth and two missing. I can' then call the missing teeth no teeth, cos they don't exist It all still has to be counted...

A tooth is a tooth even when it's a big tooth The flywheel has 19 icle teeths + 1 big one but it makes 20 gaps