Go Faster 'Atmo'

Going faster has been discussed a bit before so I don't want to flog a dying horse.... but
There seems to be a difference of opinion about whether to replace the engine completely with a 24V modern engine giving about 230hp or simply rebuilding the one that is in the car...
The cost can't be too different as the conversion from a transverse engine to fit the GTA must be quite high.
Are there prefered units that require less changes?
I only know of one car with the engine changes and that is a chap called Ian Stark? I think.... would love to hear from you.
I recently found a complete engine from a ClioV6 ( also transverse) but was advised against it

I like the idea of the tuned orignal lump, its still Renault at least! The biggest expense on the n/a Gta engine is the triple carb conversion, but it could be done better with a big throttle body and mapped injection, the 296 degree cams and skimmed heads. I like the idea of a n/a Gta engine, skim the crowns off the pistons flat to around 8:1 compression, replace the Solexs with Renault 5 Turbo items and fit the blower and exhaust manifolds and silencer from a V6 turbo. You can then treat it like a big Five engine and run 25psi all day. Hell..throw in those cams aswell! A 1.4 Five engine can do 200 bhp at about 22 psi....the GTA engine is double that in capacity.

[stephendell]

The Clio V6 engine is useless for GTA's as it's not a PRV and won't fit. The transmission is also completely different. There's a poor guy in North London who has two brand new engines and can't give them away as he has no gearboxes and they don't fit anything (other than a car that already has one!)

I bought a 3.0 24V for my atmo from a manual Peugeot 605. 200bhp straight out of the box. You need to change the bottom engine casting and the sump and then it fits straight it (well physically at least-the plumbing and wiring is a different story!). It's a six port head so breathes quite nicely with custom manifolds (I'll post a picture of one type in the tuning section later). Can also be made to look like a V12 if you know a good exhaust manufacturer! Should give around 220-230 with a mapped ECU and a good exhaust. I'm planning to fit a Rotrex supercharger which will run low boost with the standard compression ratio & full after market engine management. The manufacturers claim +50% with no intercooler & +90% with intercooler. Sounds a bit optimistic to me but I'll be happy with around 350bhp.

Re carbs, there are two solutions. 3 double webers from Simon or 2 triple webers as fitted in the talbot tagora and by Alpine in the 310 GT pack.

Both should give 200-210bhp. But the car will run like a pig when cold (Simon's kit has no choke facility) & the MPG will be Jag/Bentley like. Good for competition/climbs/sprints but not good to live with as a road car.

Stephen, I found this pic on the politecnic site.... is this the engine you mean... looks very flash!
[img]http://www.rtoc.org/library/fileroot\RLKFJDJKROCPJXZHMHUA.jpg[/img]

Thats the 60 degree Renault V6, as in Clio/Laguna etc...

So I need an answer to this....
On the subject of engine swaps, I recall that the Peugeot 605 had to be a manual... is it the same for a safrane?
I have found a cheapish safrane 3.0 V6, auto... don't know the spec yet, but presume it is 24V (wern't they all ?)
Is this a good idea.... thought I would use it for a few months then nick the engine and ditch the rest...
DG advice please!

Its better to go for a manual version if your going to use the new loom and the auto versions have the wiring for the auto computer loomed within it so it makes it a bit more complex. The safrane V6 is 12v, 170bhp standard with CAT, so about 180 without. The ECU is properly remappable so with decent headers and chipping you should be able to squeeze about 195-200. Its a good smooth conversion for little money, with no starting problems like the carbies.

Thanks David. That doesn't sound too bad... 200 hp will do fine for now.
It is an Auto and high miles... 145K so it will probably need a bit of a rebuild prior to the swap.
More complex to do the electrics ..... but possible tho?

It would probably be cheaper to buy a lower milage engine than rebuild the one youve got, when you consider, rings, shells, gaskets, timing chains etc. These engines are available exchange from most reconditioning firms if you want to go this route, with new water/oil pumps etc..rather than get it rebuilt. I missed out a month ago on two brand new, still in their crate V6 Turbo engines at £650 each from a recon firm that had them sitting there.

As for wiring, its only wires...but it would be alot easier with stand alone management for simplicity (I think people realise I love stand alone systems!)

David,

Sound really good. Just to clarify, so I ring round for a recon. Safrane V6 maunal c.£500? Take it to the garage, chip it, + engine head modification gubbins and for a total of what £1250? you've got 200 horses on a guaranteed engine.

If my exchange is a bit knackered, what happens then?

Cheers

Mike

Erm, I think what I wrote might have been a bit confusing. I meant instead of finding a high mileage engine cheap and getting it rebuilt (theres a firm that specialises in V6 and Alpine engines that charges around £2000 for rebuilds!), you may as well spend a little more on a low milage second hand unit, say a FSH Safrane thats been scrapped due to a knackered gearbox. Or the other route like I said is to buy a cheap engine use the many large recon engine firms which charge around 600-750 for an exchange engine with warranty, and new parts. As long as your engine you going to give them isnt totally obliterated there wont be any surcharges or extras unlike if you took it to a specialist and got them to rebuild your exact engine.

The two turbo engines were outright prices, but one offs. The guy said they went in the first 45minutes of them being advertised!

[stephendell]

Don't forget to add the price of a new or s/h crankcase + sump to a transverse engine project (to convert to inline).

Yep, best place for that is a scrapped 25 V6

I've found another newer safrane (four wheel drive manual) for scrapping... electrical gremlins won't let it start !!
But this prob means that the ECU need replacing anyway?
What d'you think!

No.No.No.No.No!

Where to you find these crappers?

Theres a whole good car, on autotrader 1992, VGC throughout, 1 lady owner, 'pure luxury to drive'...72 miles away...£495 ono