Mystery (aircon?) Double Relay - D502

I would be grateful for a bit of advice about a relay sitting in the scuttle recess on the driver's side (by the blower assembly) of the front compartment (boot) . The wiring looks 'aftermarket' and I suspect it may be linked to the aircon system but I can't test the aircon yet (needs a regas I think) so I can't tell what the relay is there for. To be honest it wouldn't function properly anyway as the little ferrous frames around the relay coils have corroded badly.

Anyway, the relay has 'Diavia' printed on it with the number 068535 as well as '12volt' and '1797'. There is an oval logo which has the name 'Viper' written in it (manufacturer) and it was made in Italy. The casing releases quite easily to reveal a small pcb with two small resistors and the two relay assemblies.

Five wires link to the spade terminals on the relay unit, these are red/white, grey, black, brown and the central terminal has an orange wire. The orange and brown wires disappear off into a connector close by, as do the red/white and grey wires. The black is earthed to the rearmost bolt at the top of the offside suspension turret.

At the moment the relay is disconnected, and everything testable seems to be working - but as I said the aircon can't be tested - the compressor clutch works and the aircon and recirc square switches illuminate - beyond that there is no corresponding wiring in the electrical manuals (1990 - car is a 1990 LM).

I guess some of you must have the same relay/wiring but can anyone enlighten me as to the purpose, and indeed where I could obtain a non-corroded or new replacement relay.

And for the curious out there, this is LM No 23 - and no, I didn't pay through the nose for it!

Any advice will be welcome - I'm a little stumped at present.

Paul T

It is indeed aircon related ...But as to it's function ? blower ? There is also a motor actuated flap that opens when AC is switched on .You have two AC switches ,yes ?
anyways .....Pop this through Babelfish ...
http://cgi.ebay.fr/VW-Golf-3-Relais-Kli ... 0383351264

It is indeed aircon related ...But as to it's function ? blower ? There is also a motor actuated flap that opens when AC is switched on .You have two AC switches ,yes ?
anyways .....Pop this through Babelfish ...
http://cgi.ebay.fr/VW-Golf-3-Relais-Kli ... 0383351264

Many thanks for that - looks like the right part and at 8 euros I've bought it! My AC switches are forwards of the rotary fan speed control - one illuminates blue and I guess that's the main AC switch, and one illuminates orange and looks like a recirculation switch. These little square 'button' switches do not feature in the handbook so I can't be more explicit at present.

Still got the 610 as well Paul?

Yes indeed, must get it on the road - it's just a whisker away - provided it will start after a few years laid up! Really wanted a Le Mans though (too - still love the 610 - same colour as yours), just like the shape and I watched over the weeks as the price on this one dropped and in fact really bottomed out - I did push it! Nice to have one that I can actually drive without having to pull apart - yet!

Paul

Paul, dont know if this is of help to you, but here is the circuit for the Heating and Air Conditioning for the 1990 D501 & D502. This circuit seems to cover all turbo models as there is no specific circuit for RHD Alps
The relay you are on about is 337, bottom LH side, and it is the 3 speed control relay for the blower which operates in conjunction with 321, which houses the series dropper resistors.

Hope this is of help.

John

Paul, dont know if this is of help to you, but here is the circuit for the Heating and Air Conditioning for the 1990 D501 & D502. This circuit seems to cover all turbo models as there is no specific circuit for RHD Alps
The relay you are on about is 337, bottom LH side, and it is the 3 speed control relay for the blower which operates in conjunction with 321, which houses the series dropper resistors.

Hope this is of help.

John

Thanks John. You are right, there is no diagram for the A/C installation and associated wiring for 'our' versions - seemingly because the final stages of installation were completed in the UK. The relay I needed was a Diavia 068535 - or equivalent and it clearly switches two circuits (twin coils/contacts). One switch controls the recirculation flap but I don't know what the other does. Anyway I've found exactly the right relay - the supplier is Reader Air Conditioning - they are the main (if not sole) Diavia parts supplier for the UK. The chap I spoke to (Grant) knew exactly what I was talking about and the identical relay cost £15. I haven't tried the aircon fully yet but the flap now works and I hadn't heard anything before replacing the relay. Still expect to have to regas/leak check the system but the second relay must have some function - the chap from Reader A/C said that the system simply wouldn't work with a duff relay - he might or might not have been right but I need to work out what that second relay controls.

Paul T

Paul, I have had another look at the manual to see if there is anything else on the A/C system, and I am more confused than when I started.
I have attached a pic of the relay positions for the D502, can you, from the pic, identify where that 2 coil relay is positioned, as I am begining to wonder if 337, on the circuit, is in fact it,

John, it's roughly where No 17 (relay 370) sits on the plan of the 'underbonnet' layout. However, that relay is linked to the lighting (dim-dip) system so nothing to do with the A/C. In my car the double relay was just dropped into the space forwards of the bulkhead and behind the strut/spring tower. Someone out there will know more about this, but I've pored over the wiring diagrams for ages, and concluded that the wiring simply is not covered by the Alpine wiring manuals. Remember that the blower motor is completely repositioned as well and does not correspond to any blower, or blower unit pictured in the parts manual. I don't know whether this is the same for all rhd GTAs fitted withA/C, or just the Le Mans, but the latter also has a remanufactured scuttle cover (two halves - the one covering the blower unit being thick and substantial, the other half, covering the battery, being rather thin and flimsy).

It would be nice to have more information on the detail of the system as fitted/completed in the UK. My version for instance has two very neat, square, illuminated button switches (blue(full A/C), and orange (recirc control?)) forwards of the blower speed dial but there appears to be no mention, or illustration of these in any publication. I think that the lhd versions had a second rotary dial. I thought that the company I've got the exact replacement Diavia relay from had been involved in the work, but what I think they did was supply components under a contract with Renault for another A/C specialist to install to Alpines in the early 90s - who knows though, unless someone has some hard evidence.

Anyway I wouldn't spend any more time trying to spot the circuitry in the diagrams - the wiring colours and relay don't match anything installed at the factory!

I wonder if anyone else out there has any more 'concrete' evidence of the A/C installation we are discussing here?

Paul

You`r right Paul, I cannot make head or tail of the ccts, they dont seem to tie up with anything you have posted, and the info in the manual does not help. I have found another cct involving 3 more relays relating to the 3 speeds of the blower, all with the same No......234, plus the 377 relay which is, according to the list, is the 3 speed relay . Initally I thought that the blower would run slow through the 2 resistors, 321 in the cct, and your twin relay would short out one then the other of the resistor sections producing the two other speeds, it still may do that but I have no real evidence to prove it. The only thing I would try is to remove the cover of your twin relay, and you will be able to see when it operates with what. The other thing I feel is that the blower should work whether the system is charged with gas or not.
FWIW when I bought my Alp in 1990, I was offered a post production A/C system which would have been fitted in the UK. I think Radford Racing were offering it.
Sorry I can`t be of more help
John

Anyway, the relay has 'Diavia' printed on it with the number 068535 as well as '12volt' and '1797'.

Paul T

Sounds like an aftermarket system to me, Diavia make them for all sorts of cars......